Post-filling - can't detect any chlorine after a week

[ScoopEE]

Hi all,

I recently filled my pool after a replastering and believe I'm screwing up everything since then. The pool company supposedly had a 3-day start-up (which I was naive about and seemingly spent a fortune on someone showing up twice over those three days for like 20 mins a pop) and have since brought on a pool guy who is supposed to continue that start-up. I'm not convinced he's doing an effective job, but I don't know any better yet.

I had purchased a TFTTestkit so I could start to familiarize myself with the process, but when I ran a Chlorine test, it came up completely blank (not pink). Is it normal for there to still be no chlorine in the pool a week after it's been filled? I have a salt chlorinator and know I shouldn't be using that for at least 30 days, but thought chlorine would still be added per the National Plaster Council recommendations.

I would love any advice there or even being talked down from the ledge if I'm overreacting.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[mknauss]

You have to add chlorine. Daily.
Post a full set of test results from your kit.
Are you going to have a pool service or handle the pool chemistry yourself?

 

[ScoopEE]

You have to add chlorine. Daily.
Post a full set of test results from your kit.
Are you going to have a pool service or handle the pool chemistry yourself?

That's what I thought. I thought there was only a 1 or 2 day grace period after the filling, sigh. I wanted to have a pool service in place while I get up to speed with learning, but this pool service I'm using I'm not confident in currently.

I may be misreading this, but it appears there is no Chlorine at all. pH seems to be way less than 6.8 as well. I also did the TA test (2 drops, 20 TA? it turned pink and never turned a full red despite adding more drops to be sure, I could re-do this if I've done this wrong) and the CYA Test, which appeared to be 80.

 

[mknauss]

What type of start up are you following.

Always use FAS-DPD test when measuring for a real FC.

 

[proavia]

Brand new plaster, brand new fill and PB did initial startup - I don't find your results surprising as PB and pool guys have a 'dump and pray' mentality.

Is the new plaster a standard plaster or an upgraded plaster or pebble type material?
What instructions did the PB provide for startup? If nothing in writing, call them.
If it's a name brand finish, those companies usually have specific startup info published.

Have you done a CYA test yet? If so, what was the result?

As @mknauss suggested, always use the FAS-DPD test for getting an accurate chlorine measurement.

 

[ScoopEE]

Thanks all. I thought I did the FAS-DPD test initially (the Chlorine Only tube with the R-0870)? That one also came up completely clear twice, so I didn't continue with the steps of adding R-0871, etc.

I thought we were following the National Plasterer's Council procedure but suspect we're a bit off-book right now: https://www.nptpool.com/pdf/npc-start-up-card-lsi.pdf. I believe it's just a standard plaster (we just replastered the pool with a white plaster, no pebbling, etc.), and my CYA appeared to be 80.

My next step is to call them on Monday and understand the plan here, and if not reasonably satisfied, call a different company to take over. I'm leaning more towards the latter at this point unless I'm being hypercritical again.

 

[mknauss]

Sorry on the FC test, all I saw was the OTO test.
I would add some baking soda to get the TA up to 50+ ppm. Nothing good comes from running a near 0 TA.

Your CYA is 80 all ready? That is not good. You need more than 10 ppm FC level. Not good at this stage of plaster cure.

 

[proavia]

If you added one rounded blue dipper of powder to 10ml of pool water and didn't see the slightest pink color, your chlorine is zero.

What exact date was the pool filled?
I'm assuming that since its new plaster, no salt has been added (a 30 day wait for adding salt is pretty standard.

Follow Marty's suggestions and he will get you sorted.

 

[duraleigh]

Drop your pool service and with that good kit, we can help you get back in balance. Follow the good advice of mknauss and disregard anything that pool service tells you. You will be fixed in no time. The factor that will make this all possible is that good test kit.

Do not go to the pool store as that will only cause you confusion.

 

[ScoopEE]

Pool was filled on July 22nd (last Friday), and yup, totally get that salt needs to wait.

Thanks Marty for the looking out. I'm planning to run out and pick up some supplies to rectify, and not wait. Using Pool Math, it seems like I should be dumping about 9lbs of baking soda for the TA to get it to 50, and about 3 gallons of sanitizer for the FC level (though I'm currently trying to understand what the difference in Sanitizers are). If anyone has a recommend on the supplies themselves, LMK. Again, still getting my bearings.

And hear you Duraleigh on dropping the service. It's where I want to be long-term, but I just don't want to miss anything critical so was hoping to do that in tandem with the crash course.

 

[mknauss]

(though I'm currently trying to understand what the difference in Sanitizers are)

Liquid Chlorine - sodium hypochlorite - aka bleach. In your area Home Depot, Walmart, Lowes. May have a pool store that carries HASA bulk chlorine.
I am startled by the CYA level. New plaster should not have high FC levels, but as yours is white, it will not cause an issue.
Follow the FC/CYA Levels

 

[ScoopEE]

That CYA level could be my user error, so I will re-test tomorrow. I've added the chemicals as well, so hopefully on the way to greener pastures. Thanks again all for the advice, I'm sure I'll be back!

 

[ScoopEE]

So @mknauss or anyone, update on today's daily test after adding liquid chlorine and baking soda. I hope this is a better story.

Unsurprisingly, tests for Chlorine are showing up after adding 2 gallons, and my FC appears to be 9 as of today. My pH still doesn't appear to be in range, looking more orange than purple, though. Looks like I should be adding some Borax into the mix. My TA is now at 50 (from 20), but my CYA appears to be in the same range at 90 (from 80). Honestly, I don't have a full grasp on the CYA test yet, so I could be botching that a bit.

As for the next steps, it looks like I should be:

1. Adding more baking soda. Pool math recommends another 5+ lbs to get me to 70 (my ideal is 60-80)
2. Adding Borax. For this one, I'm not sure what I should start with since the color doesn't register on any charts. Any initial advice?
3. Adding a few cups of liquid chlorine to try to raise FC to 10.

Thanks again, everyone for the help so far!
Eric

 

[mknauss]

If you want to add another 10-20 ppm TA worth of baking soda, OK, but do not add borax. If the TA will hold in the 70 ppm range, the pH will rise.

I am concerned on the CYA level. There was no reason for anyone to raise it to that level. And draining 50% of your pool volume is not acceptable at this time.
When you do the CYA test, try this next time.

Once you have your solution ready, back to the sun, etc. Fill the vial to a line, say 80, lower the vial to your waist level and glance for the dot, you see it, add solution to the 70 line, glance, see it, repeat until you no longer see it with a glance. Then use the CYA value one step above the line you read. So if you stopped at 50, use 60 ppm CYA.

The vial is in logarithmic scale. So it is not viable to interpolate between the lines. Just use the whole numbers, such as 50, 40, 30, ....

 

[ScoopEE]

Hmm, seems like CYA was at best 70, but more likely 80, so that sounds like it's still too high. Also, there's a big gap between 50 and 70 on the viewing tube, right? Is there something else I could be doing that's a critical misstep in gauging this? I will try again tomorrow, the same method you outlined before I go crazy.

pH seems to be falling into line, though still out of target range (estimating it's like 5-6), where TA is at 80, FC is at 7.

One other thing worth noting, as my new homeowner's curse continues to hit, it appears the pool is leaking. I did a bucket test to be sure, where I lose 3/4 of an inch to evaporation in a 24-hour period, but the pool loses between 2-3 inches. They're doing a dye test tomorrow, but to your point about draining the pool, I have been using a hose to keep water at the mid-point of my tiles, almost every other day at this point so new water is being replenished. Unfortunately, it appears with the CYA so high, it may not be enough.

 

[mknauss]

The CYA viewing tube has lines from 20 to 100.

pH should rise pretty quickly with that TA. Aerate as much as possible.

Leak does not sound good. I would not do much but keep some chlorine in the pool until you get the leak resolved.

 

[ScoopEE]

Hey there! Thanks again for all the guidance so far. Got the leak sorted out last week pretty quickly, which was a big relief, and dove back into understanding the chemistry.

I feel I have a handle on the chlorine, though I cannot distinguish between the yellow gradients on the Cl/pH test, so I use the Free Chlorine test, which puts me around 7 FC. My pH has been steadily climbing and is approximately 7.8. My TA is 70, and CYA looks like it was 60, so that's been coming down I also recently tested for CH, which was below the recommendation at 200 but know we wanted to get the TA/pH handled first.

I've been using Pool Math to help direct me on ranges. So, for example, it wants:

FC (rec 5-9)
pH (rec 7.2-8, ideal 7.6-7.8)
TA (rec 50-90, ideal 60-80)
CYA (rec. 30-60, ideal 40-50)
CH (rec. 250-650, ideal 350-550)

Does that sound like accurate targets to you as well? And should I be addressing the CH yet or wait to stabilize everything else first?

 

[mknauss]

Things look good.
The CH is a touch low, but unless your fill water is much different than most in the Los Angeles area, your CH will rise with evaporation. Is your pool at Manhattan Beach or Palmdale? Climate really matters.

Keep the pH at 7.6 or higher, TA no lower, and the CH level is fine.

 

[ScoopEE]

Good to hear, again sincere thanks for the direction. Starting to get my bearings and will stay on it. We have yet to add salt for the salt chlorinator, that's coming in about 2 weeks.

I'm in the San Fernando Valley, and from what I hear, we lose almost an inch a week due to evaporation!

 

[mknauss]

we lose almost an inch a week due to evaporation!

Sounds about right. About 1/3 or less of what I lose a week.