Pool's milky green-ness seems VERY stubborn

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AndyPTx

0
Mar 26, 2018
98
Sulphur Springs, NE Texas
Pool Size
13500
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Much as I hate this (and if you've seen my tale of woe in the random 'search' forum (?) you'll know why) - this is going to feel to me very terse. I hope for you you won't take it as rudeness?

["Re: Help!! Did I lose my whole extensive thread?!
It was a LOO-oo-ong entry containing as much detail, background, scenario, current situation as I could think you wonderful people might need, from having been reading voraciously here now this past year.

There's no possible way to compose it all again. I wouldn't know where to start. Should I just give a (woefully shortened and sadly I suspect inadequate) nutshell version that will of course leave you all needing to ask me lots of questions - and then field them as they arise?"] <= This is precisely what I have been advised to do ...

...

Cleaning a friend's pool.
For this reason - it's not my pool - I have not put the details in my sig. If it helps I guess I can give those details and later update the sig for my own details?
They have a 16' 6000G AT pool, not Intez I don't believe but of that ilke - 'bag-style pool-in-a-box'. Their cartridge filter and pump are of the probably cheap undersized crappy variety that comes in those boxes. Their skimmer is mounted OUTside the pool (much like my AG Doughboy) - no floaty thing I read of from others. Except their skimmer 'basket' is flat and the pump is enclosed in the bottom of the unit that the skimmer is the top of.

ULTRA-brief background to where I'm coming from is that two years ago (2016) we had an offer of a free pool (24' AG Doughboy). All we had to do was empty it, dismantle it, and take it away for them.
Which we did! 'Free' 24' Doughboy!
I spent the second half of summer 2017 collecting the various pieces from where they had been left in the yard and putting it up. Time-consuming as we recessed it into a steeply-sloping 'back 40' section of the yard.

All irrelevant, except to say I somehow found you wonderful, kind, brilliant, expert, knowledgeable and infinitely patient people, and read from here voraciously ever since. Finding out, learning hopefully, 'enjoying' (if I may say?) others' stories of pain and woe - and especially the joy and success you typically lead them to :sunny::cheers::kim: (learning yet more from those).

All this learning is, of course, 'I hope'.

So.
The promised brief stuff.
(I'm trying! I really am!!)

Only test kit available is the wallyworld cheapy hth 6-way so I'm making do. Means I can't differentiate chlorine and only know the total. Also that I can't test high chlorine at all :roll: so am working with a down-and-dirty approximate (gu?)ess-timation method I read here somewhere for someone's emergency situation where a decent kit was pending: a dilution ratio of 1:2 pool:tap water, with a tripling of the 'measured' results.

Working even harder to go 'bullet-point' on you...
Opening numbers from wallyworld/hth cheapy:

Cya: 45
pH: ? (maybe 6.8 or almost, as I recall)
TA: negligible (colour 'change' immediate - no drops added)
CH: not measured (vinyl)
Total Chlorine: zero/negligible

No borax on hand but because they have used 'pool store method' to all intents and purposes before now, they had pH up. Canister said a certain amount (3oz) for a certain increase (unhelpfully I forget what I aimed for - probably guessed increasing 6.8 to 7.2 knowing I could easily retest and add more) on 5000 and 10000 gallons, and I went down the middle.
Retested. No change registered.
Added again. Retested. Still no change.
Concerned about adding too much but wondering if results were screwy because of the horrible conditions and zero chlorine etc.

Began SLAM. (oops as pH was not right).
Cya led, by poolmath calc, to shock of 18, and for 6000 gallon pool a gallon (128oz) 10% bleach would provide increase of 17.
Because of approximations and thinking a little higher chlorine concentration was better than a little low (killing harder can't hurt?!) I put in either 1.5 or 2 gallons.

Whatever I put in that evening, not all was gone in the morning, so I was able to calculate (guesstimate) a usage rate.
Unable to constantly monitor - not my pool therefore don't live there! - I moved forward always looking at previous chlorine drop over how long and daytime or nighttime and added accordingly. By the 1:2 method and tripling the numbers, and 'judging' (yes even more) that darker than 5 was about 6, obviously darker and heading orange was 7, blatantly orange was 8, and deeper still was 9ish. Approaching something resembling red was more in the ballpark of 10.

(That last part must have SO hurt you to read!! :???: :puker: )

Anyway, never returned to 'measurement' below 24ish - remembering shock only needed 18 so it must at least have been enough (?)

At some point in first few days I added another 5oz pH up. Knew I couldn't measure at this chlorine level but also knew it was low.

Then read here that zero TA screws up ability to deal with pH so I added 2lbs baking soda. Measurements from zero to anywhere near range said in poolmath calc they needed more than that so I cautiously added just that (reducing TA is a buttpain but increasing is easy?).

Continued in the ['Add bleach to TC level that shouldn't drop before my return', return, doublecheck, always find 24+, powerrinse majorly gunked cartridge filter, scoop blindly all leaves I can stumble on, add 10% chlorine again according to last usage rate per hour and the daytime/nighttime factor] cycle.

Went through at different times the floaty dead wormy looking stuff and the clumps of cloudiness that disperse if you're not gentle.

As that week drew toward a close I was willing to put my arm in there. I lost sight of my hand before, then at, then above my elbow.

Deep green swamp now pale green and looking like just a green pool.
Throughout that second week I reach the point I can't reach in far enough to lose my hand without getting my face in the pool :uhh:
By the end of that week I can see the detail of my fingernails, can see their leaf net when it's touching the floor. Finally can even see all the details of their vacuum head I had dropped in there as a 'vision gauge'.

Into the third week now. Reaching the NONONONO DON'T DOUBT THE BBB AND TFPC !!! stage.

Filters are coming out basically clean. Can see the mere smattering of gritty dirt that's on the floor, along with the 4 or 5 leaves left in there. And now when I stir it up I can still see through it. Nothing (or virtually nothing) to stir up! I can see a leaf from 2/3rds across the pool.

BUT!!!

STILL not clear - milky/faintly cloudy. STILL light shade of green.
Aargh!!! :brickwall:

HELP !!?!

2 1/2 weeks. Keep fearing they'll lose faith in me. Doubting myself.
Was initially conservative (their chlorine budget after all) and just made sure the level was above shock. After a week I got brutal with it and by my guesstimate 'calculations' hit chlorine levels peaking in the 40s or even 50.
What to do?!
Green is not totally clear so not metals?
Green means algae so SLAM SLAM SLAM (haven't even met the 'clear water' criteria yet?!!)
But filters almost clean on removal and nothing stirs up?

Sorry sorry sorry sorry
SORRRRREEEEEEE for taking SOOOooo LOO-oo-ong!!!

NOT a good first post to 'win friends and influence people', to win you awesome folks over to my cause, to goad you into helping me - to make ANYone want to encourage me to say another word here ever again!
I don't even know how long think is (and dread to think) since I did it on my phone.

I'm so sorry.
If you have it in your heart - can you offer any help/ideas/genius insights/pointers to anything I just HAVEN'T thought of or found in my intensive searching including multiple re-wording of questions on here?

- - - Updated - - -

I took pics today. They are in my phone too. Can I get them on here?
 
Just struck me even though the filters are coming out almost clean and I can neither see nor stir up anything in there - yet it's stubbornly still greenish ... whenever I return the chlorine HAS reduced to somewhere near the level I arrived at and added to (often 2 gallons for an increase of 2x17 = 34). So SOMEthing must be going on in there for chlorine to continually drop - 8hrs of day OR 15/16 hours of night - by as much as 34.
???
 
Last edited:
ok i am going out on a limb here and will probably be hanging from a tree by morning
take a sample to pool shop and have tested, especially mention you think you have metals because of filled from a well or some algaecide was used
when they tell you what you need, thank them and say i still have some of that from my last visit
just in case it is metals
 
When you dump way to much bleach in the pool, it just wastes the chlorine. If the SLAM level is 18ppm, then only dose FC to 18-22ppm. Any FC above this isn't protected by the CYA and gets lost easily with no benefit. A TC of 50ppm is just unneeded.

The second issue you are having is that the filter is likely woefully undersized and poor circulation. If the filters are coming out clean, are you sure there is flow through the pump/filter? With a cloudy pool, the filter should be catching the particles, at least some of them. Is there flow out of the pump into the pool?

With 2 gallons a day x 20 days x $3 a gallon = $120 in bleach. Assuming you wasted half the bleach with the "guesstimating", that would have about paid for the recommended test kit TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C. And then we wouldn't have to guess or assume things. As you found out the OTO chlorine test really isn't suitable for the SLAM process.

You can add pics by using the icon above with the tree/picture frame. There is a limited size available before you have to link to a hosting site or become donating member of the forum.

Green is typically related to algae and I would go under that premise for now. But at those insane chlorine levels, I'm surprised there is any green left. Iron in the water at high chlorine levels can turn green. Is this pool filled from a well? What other pool chemicals have been used by the owner or yourself?

For follow-up content, please try to stay on topic. that is way too much commentary for us to help you. Can we have basics please.
 
Thank you aussieta I am ok to take some to a pool store here I know. The pool is filled from a house tap within city limits (no well) but admittedly I have no idea the composition of that water. I only mention metal because in my desperate searching for answers I saw about this - but they don't have a truly clear green, merely a milkiness thin enough to see through.
And teald024, first I regret the length. I was carried away trying to give the fullest and most complete picture possible.
I realise from readings here their equipment is unlikely to be sufficient, and I don't see any likelihood of them investing in a quality test kit. I personally don't own one - I realise that it doesn't take many problems for it to pay for itself but our money tree dried up last year (I'm not being sarcastic, it truly did) and we've had no real issues yet. If/when we do, that will become a serious question.

I have been targeting 24 for chlorine because, by the clumsy tripling method, I can only approximate such as 15, 18, 21, 24, 27 ... shock being 6 (tripled to 18) I have aimed not for 7 which, if judged wrong, is real close to just about shock, but for what seems more like 8 (ie 24) for a buffer margin.
I mentioned the extreme readings that at one point I was hitting - out of frustration and a determination to get everything DEAD and asap - just to make it known the pool had at some stage been through those levels. Thank you for clarifying the wastefulness of 'excess to shock' levels :salut:
Regarding other chemicals:
They used to use tabs (last year) but the cya had come down to 45 by now,
They have probably used algaecide before now - would have been last year before they grew this swamp - could any junk from that still be hanging around?
Other than that I think just rip-off pool store equivalents (pH and/or alkalinity up/down or whatever).

So I will check the water with the pool store (outside chance of metals and.tp compare their number to mine).
And continue to maintain lower chlorine levels.
And continue to filter.

Oh - yes there is both skimmer suction and return pressure, and when I say clean I mean ALMOST clean, with little pressure-rinsing required. A good amount of white still showing on the fins, and only light mess elsewhere.

And now forgive my silence - I THEORETICALLY live on a normal night/day schedule and it is now 3.41. A bad habit of mine.
Bed beckons.
:sleep::sleep:
 
FYI, with the OTO test (the test you are using for chlorine), you can use this test to get a vague idea of extremely high TC levels. If the sample turns a particularly vivid yellow the TC level is between 5 and 15, light orange is between 10 and 20, dark orange is between 15 and 30, and brown is 30 or higher. An excerpt from Extended Test Kit Directions.
 
Andy, You are doing the best you can with what you have. Now you need something money can't buy..........POP aka pool owners patience. The small filter and pump are working against you but WILL get the job done but it will take time. I wish you could post pics for us to see BUT it is good you have them to see on your own and you have the vacuum head in there to help you see the progress. If the water has a milky look it tells me it is just dead and dying algae and it need chlorine, time, and filtering to get it done.

Show the people you are helping the first pic you took while you are by the pool so they can SEE it is working.

Andy, what are the water rates were you live? I just realized it is a smaller pool.......I hate to say this now but.......could you drain and refill THEN teach them how to keep it clear with chlorine?

Kim:kim: (Oh the comment about the pool store doing the testing.......they tend to do a pretty good job on the metal tests so no harm there!)
 
The pump and filter are very small and not really good for much other than moving the water when it is clean. For clearing a green pool not so much :( It is what it is and they are working with what they have.
 
Morning folks and thanks for variously new, interesting, and reassuring input!

Teald regarding the 'loose guide' re colourations off the scale - big help, thanks :) I have been reading deeper yellows as up to 7ish and when orange seeps in - at least 8 and beyond. Had no clue how to guess above the red/brown so I figured it must be at least 10 and called it quits. Once tripled I didn't need to be up there anyway (chlorine 30+ ? Not with cya of 45 surely!)
Seems I have kept it above - and dropping to for my return visits - around 30 (10ish 'measured') and occasionally hitting 45+ (15 or so).
(Don't want to imagine what I hit once or twice when I was getting majorly 'grrr...hmph!' with it! 20? 30? (60-90?!) OMG :shock:
Waste of chlorine sadly - but at least I can rest assured everything died and nothing grew back (except maybe roaches as I wrought Armageddon that pool)

Kimkats - yeah I told them up front with their deep green pea soup that with their smaller pool they could consider drain/refill. I think they either felt it was drastic or just didn't know where to as they have a smallish yard in a neighbourhood. As deep green turned pale (exciting) but pale then lingered and more and more bleach went in I feared that should have been encouraged and pursued more. By now at least 5 gallons (20 cases) in :-?

I have removed the pool head (after showing their young son how easy he could see it by way of encouragement as he's champing at the bit to get in :snorkle:
At this point - filters coming out not clean but puzzlingly close (I'll get a pic and try to add) - 50/50 still white/little dirty. 'No' gunk.
I can see one of the 4 or 5 leaves from 2/3rds across, and the tile design on the floor into virtually the middle. Through cloudiness/milkiness, but I can see them.

I'll go to the pool store (I had read here that they can manage useful metal readings), and continue filter filter filter - at chlorine nearer low20s than than 30-40!

Again thanks. And I'll try to put the pics on....

- - - Updated - - -

(I just discovered what I thought was an ok word but apparently isn't - sorry guys! No offense meant! The slang-shift from Brit to Texas sometimes catches me out :oops: )
 

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Maybe you can see the tile design on a computer screen. I can't on my phone, but can when I'm there.
20180605_124344.jpg

Again - does the pic show it? Probably half way down and somewhere middle/right side is the particular leaf I can see that, from this position, is 2/3rds across the pool.
20180605_124403.jpg
 
That pool looks way to green for the amount of chlorine you have added for the last 20 days, even if it was a black/green swamp to begin with. Make sure when you add the chlorine that you take a brush or leaf net and mix the chlorine around to get the water mixed well. Be sure you are brushing the pool at least once a day.
 
Andy, are they just not willing to buy a better test kit? If they knew how crucial it is to a successful SLAM?
 
Kellyfair (NOT jellyfish as the autocorrect I fortunately caught, said!) I have if honest found the subject of a $70 test kit difficult to broach. Even though they have spent double that in bleach probably :)thumbdown:) and, as pointed out by teald near the top of here, perhaps as much as half unnecessarily (even more :thumbdown: ... :shock:).
The difference of course is the incremental spending as opposed to the absolute spending up front.
(The real issue is their personal circumstance - he just recently survived and conquered cancer (who can BEGIN to imagine possible bills from that, too), and her limited mobility restricts the extent of her work and therefore earning)

Thank you teald I am trying to be extra-thorough about loosening anything I probably can't see and maybe couldn't even if clear without the naked eye.

More pics in case useful...
 
I like my auto-correct name!

If he has recently been through chemo he has compromised immunity. Crucial to get that water balanced.
 
This morning's test, from a cup measure 1/3 of which was pool, 2/3 tap:
20180606_115209.jpg
(Thanks to previous advice I now considered this about 15-20 - hopefully around 18 for shock level if their cya IS indeed 45)

Yesterday evening was a very similar colour, maybe a tad darker, and I added a gallon (for some reason I gambled and put a little less in than normal).
Clearly overnight SOMEthing ate its way through more than 17ppm of chlorine.
I added 2 gallons this morning.
From that advice above I did 1 1/2, but from the OTHER advice above I scrubbed at it extra-conscientiously so I played it safe in case I had loosened stuff and gave it the other 1/2 as well.

Apparently the next pic exceeds my quota so I'll move to one last post...
 
This is their skimmer basket this morning - looking oddly clear! It's full right to the top - I read a thread here yesterday using the term 'gin-clear', and saying it looks as though there's no water even there...

Oh no! It's an *absolute* quota - and my last pic foe you was to be of the filter I just removed, before I cleaned it. Is there a way to show you this?....:scratch:
 

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