Pool Replaster - Leak From Light

[danielpatrick]

I'm in the middle of a pool renovation, with new plaster, tile, coping installed. I'm waiting a month for the plaster to cure, and the plan is to pour the concrete deck after the plaster cure.

7 days into the startup I noticed a wet spot in the dirt behind the pool. I had the pipes pressure tested during the renovation when the deck was demoed so I knew it unlikely to be the piping. I had the pool renovator trench up the wet area and he found the leak coming from an old electrical pipe into the niche. He plugged up the pipe with an expanding pipe plug and said that would last the life of my ownership with the pool.

Before the pipe was plugged, I was losing 2.5" overnight. After the pipe was plugged, I am still losing a bit over 0.5" overnight. I did a tiny bit more trenching and there is still a leak coming somewhere in the the niche shell (concrete or otherwise, hard for a layman like me to tell).

I know for sure the leak was not occurring before the replaster job - pool was holding water perfectly for the months before we drained it for the reno. The pool builder talked with the crew and they cleaned out all patchwork inside the niche during the prep work. He says the niche was plastered on the inside and that was what was holding the in water before. His crew cleaned out that plaster but didn't reseal anything or check for anything (I caught him chewing out the crew lead).

I'm being asked what path I want to take:

1. Have the pool builder put a bandaid on the current niche like was done before (they plug it up on the inside with silicone, plaster, or otherwise). Risk I run is they do this, I pour a very expensive deck, and whatever they patch it with fails.
2. Replace the niche. If they replace the niche, they will have to drain the pool below the fixture, chip out the very expensive pebbletec plaster, install the new niche, and very likely have some apparent difference on my brand new plaster. My deck will have to wait even longer because they would have to trench out to place the new niche. This work wouldn't even start for another 6-8 weeks from today because the plaster still has to cure (as per the plaster company). If I wait for this, he won't plug up the current leak as he says it's not going to cause any issues with the ground or any surrounding area.

There is a third (nuclear) option: have him drain the pool now, replace the niche, and they chip and re-plaster the pool again. It pushes back my schedule, but not nearly as long as the patch solution listed above.

I want to be reasonable, but I think this should have 100% been addressed when the pool was empty just a week ago. He could have raised the concern about the niche then, and I wouldn't be in this conundrum. We already replaced the autofiller, the skimmer, upgraded the drain to a dual channel (for safety), and I also paid to replace the pool light.

I know I'm a new member, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The patchwork in the niche held fine for many years. Let him plug and patch your existing niche.

If you start removing the existing niche it can open up a cascading can of worms. Replacing the nice is always an option in the future if the builder cannot get your existing niche sealed. Save that fix for later only if necessary.

I don't know where that leak area falls on your future deck. You might want to drop a pipe into the hole and some type of access panel put on the deck so if you need to get into it int he future you don't chop up the deck. It can be made to look like a skimmer lid.

 

[danielpatrick]

Hi Allen, thanks for the advice! Having them patch up the niche seems to be the easiest for everyone.

I just wanted a logical gut check about future failures. Contractors out here have a habit of assuming that ownership is continuously transitionary because people do tend to hop in and out of the SF bay area due to opportunity and cost. But we are lifers (35 years in the area and running) and everything we do at this house is for the long haul.

Any suggestions on what they should patch with? (Or for anybody else that may have comment as well)

 

[ajw22]

Any suggestions on what they should patch with? (Or for anybody else that may have comment as well)

Really depends exactly where the leaks are and how big the leak areas are.

Pool Putty is good for small leak areas.

 

[danielpatrick]

Day 3 update in repairing the leak in the 8 day old new plaster pool:

Pool renovator came out, tried to patch from the outside with combination epoxy putty, wasn't getting any success, excavated further, and found the problem. His updated diagnosis is when the electric pipe joint failed when they were running the new cable for the new pool light.

His solution will be to silicone / epoxy the joint on the inside and to add up to three layers of cement on the outside of the niche.

To do so, he has to drain the pool below the light. I'm to drain from Sunday night, they do the work on Monday, and I then refill on Monday or Tuesday. While the plaster is exposed, he wants me to spray with a hose every couple of hours to keep the plaster wet so that it doesn't dry out.

I'm concerned about a couple of points:

• Is draining this (half the pool water) going to cause the plaster to have issues down the road? The whole reason I'm in this position of new plaster job is that this is what happened earlier this year (but that was for a month, not a day or two).
• Will this hold up in the long run? I'm about to lay some very nice concrete in a couple of weeks, and I would hate to have to dig this up because this wasn't a long term fix.
• It's leaking A LOT more than it was before they poked around to attempt a soft fix / research the problem. He says it will balance out, but my concern is it's going to just keep draining out (and create more ground issues).

Does anyone have advice, perspective, or suggestions?

 

[danielpatrick]

Hey @ajw22 it's looking now like it's going to be a replacement niche (depending on the outcome of multiple independent inspections that I'm paying for). Since you mentioned replacing it could open a can of worms, would be good to know some potential concerns.

I did some googling, didn't see anything talking about extensive issues caused by replacement (only saw notes that they tend to fail, especially plastic ones).

 

[ajw22]

Hey @ajw22 it's looking now like it's going to be a replacement niche (depending on the outcome of multiple independent inspections that I'm paying for). Since you mentioned replacing it could open a can of worms, would be good to know some potential concerns.

You replacing the conduit from the new niche to the light junction box?

Depends if and how the old niche is secured to the gunite. Some are just press fit into the hold, some have the gunite surrounding the niche and need to be cut out.

Make sure they get a good water seal between the gunite shell and the new niche.

 

[danielpatrick]

Redoing the conduit run wasn't something I considered. It's a rigid conduit that was placed at the last remodel some 15 years ago. It seemed to be an adequate gauge for the recent electrical run by the PB.

My expectation is that whatever company ends up fixing this is going to do what the previous renovators did: insert a plastic niche into the original steel niche that was installed with the gunite. I would ask them to put some flex pipe between the rigid conduit and the plastic niche, as apparently it's a common failure point several years after install.

I talked to a couple of pool repair companies and they all indicated what the pool builder did was a temporary fix (at best). But they want me to figure out the next steps with the pool builder, because anybody else coming in to fix will likely invalidate the warranty.

I've learned a lot about the issues I observed in trying to figure this out. The white stuff was efflorescence (cement pulls calcium out when in contact with water) and the wet spots in the middle of those are weepers.

I appreciate your earlier advice. I tried to take the more reasonable approach with the pool builder, and because that failed, he needs to make it right or leave me my money so I can get it done by someone who will.

 

[ajw22]

My expectation is that whatever company ends up fixing this is going to do what the previous renovators did: insert a plastic niche into the original steel niche that was installed with the gunite. I would ask them to put some flex pipe between the rigid conduit and the plastic niche, as apparently it's a common failure point several years after install.

Do you get your water bond from the metal light niche? Make sure they don’t mess up your water bond by inserting plastic.

 

[danielpatrick]

Previous remodel did exactly that. But seems they punctured into the niche. (Picture is from the niche fix attempt by the pool builder)