Pool Proposal -- Advice appreciated! -- Westport, MA

[wptpool]

Hi All,
First time pool owner here. We want a 20' x 50', 3.5' - 8' deep, gunite pool in Westport, MA.
Low maintenance is important. We like automation and smart home functionality. We've saved up and have a healthy budget.
Our builder has proposed the following.
We welcome and appreciate any and all advice.
Thank you in advance!
Jack

Swimming Pool Hydraulics

• 2 Anti Vortex Main Drains
• 4 Surface Return lines with eyeball fittings
• 3 Lower Heat Returns
• 2 Automatic Recessed Skimmers
• Polaris 3900 Sport with Booster Pump
• Polaris Vac Line

Equipment Specifications

• Clean and Clear 420 Sq Ft Cartridge Filter
• Pentair Intelliflo XF Variable Speed Pump
• Paramount UV System
• Chlorine Feeder
• Jandy Never Lube Valves

Electrical Components / Control Module

• EasyTouch 8 Function Automation System
  • Control pool lights, heater, cleaner, and pump via Screen Logic Interface
  • Screen Logic Interface for controllability on iPhone, iPad, or Android
• 2 Pentair Microbrite LED Pool Lights
• Junction Box

Heating Systems

• Mastertemp 400,000 BTU Gas Heater

Interior Finish - PebbleSheen

T4 automatic pool cover from Zodiac Cover-Pools

Meyco Lite Winter Safety Cover

 

[BigPapaSmurf]

At first glance;
Ditch the Polaris and booster pump and get a robot cleaner
Ditch the UV. It doesn’t work.
Ditch the chlorine feeder and go with a salt system.
Make sure the depths are ”Water” depths.

 

[AK-]

If the measures are correct your pool will hold about 43k gal of water (about 370k lb of water).

- Get the biggest filter surface possible, so you don’t have to clean filters often.
- Your 400K BTU heater will heat your water around 1.05F/h. Make sure that is enough for you (1 BTU = 1F on 1lb of water).
- Get the biggest SWCG possible, so tou don’t have to run the pump continuously and your cell gets a little extra life.

 

[jamjam]

echoing the above - if you are into low maintenance and automation - I would definitely go with a salt water chlorination system - I would also save money by ditching the antiquated in-pool vac system and go with a robot.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jack,

I too vote to ditch the UV and tab feeder and go with a Saltwater pool.. It is by far the easiest type of pool to care for..

I would also ditch the booster pump and pressure side cleaner and go with a Robot. They look like this...

I'd buy the robot yourself rather than through the pool builder.

Your CCP-420 filter will work just fine, but bigger is always better when it comes to filters.

I have an EasyTouch with ScreenLogic and love it.. That said, if I were to build a new pool, I would install the new IntelliCenter.. It costs about the same as a EasyTouch with ScreenLogic and comes with a built-in ScreenLogic like system so you can use your PC or phone to control your pool.

The EasyTouch (ET) has a max of 12 programs/schedules.. The IntelliCenter (IC) has a max of 100.
The ET has a black and while alphanumeric display. The IC has a color touch screen like your phone.
The ET can't be updated by the owner. The IC uses the internet to download updates, just like your PC
etc, etc..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bmoreswim]

Your autocover isn't cheap but you will love the options it affords for retaining heat easily, opening early and closing late while keeping leaves out, and safety in general. Nice to go out of town and know that unless someone cuts open your cover, no one is using your pool. I too have a mesh winter cover and like the two cover combo.

I'd recommend a channel main drain over circular drains. Circular drains all have a lip that catches debris and also can impede robot travel. You can't fix those issues afterwards reliably. Like this one... A&A AVSC Dual Suction Pebble Top Channel Drain | Light Gray | 571559

 

[wptpool]

At first glance;
Ditch the Polaris and booster pump and get a robot cleaner
Ditch the UV. It doesn’t work.
Ditch the chlorine feeder and go with a salt system.
Make sure the depths are ”Water” depths.

Great tips, thank you so much @BigPapaSmurf ! Do you have a preferred salt system? Should I try to standardize around Pentair?

 

[wptpool]

If the measures are correct your pool will hold about 43k gal of water (about 370k lb of water).

- Get the biggest filter surface possible, so you don’t have to clean filters often.
- Your 400K BTU heater will heat your water around 1.05F/h. Make sure that is enough for you (1 BTU = 1F on 1lb of water).
- Get the biggest SWCG possible, so tou don’t have to run the pump continuously and your cell gets a little extra life.

@AK- Thank you for doing the math! For New England, do you know how many BTUs might make more sense? BTW we're going to have a lot of solar panels. Should I even look at the pool heat pumps? I definitely would if we lived down south or out west but not sure it makes sense here, especially since I imagine we'll be doing the heating in the spring and fall.

 

[wptpool]

Jack,

I too vote to ditch the UV and tab feeder and go with a Saltwater pool.. It is by far the easiest type of pool to care for..

I would also ditch the booster pump and pressure side cleaner and go with a Robot. They look like this...

I'd buy the robot yourself rather than through the pool builder.

Your CCP-420 filter will work just fine, but bigger is always better when it comes to filters.

I have an EasyTouch with ScreenLogic and love it.. That said, if I were to build a new pool, I would install the new IntelliCenter.. It costs about the same as a EasyTouch with ScreenLogic and comes with a built-in ScreenLogic like system so you can use your PC or phone to control your pool.

The EasyTouch (ET) has a max of 12 programs/schedules.. The IntelliCenter (IC) has a max of 100.
The ET has a black and while alphanumeric display. The IC has a color touch screen like your phone.
The ET can't be updated by the owner. The IC uses the internet to download updates, just like your PC
etc, etc..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you @Jimrahbe! That's a great tip regarding the new IC -- will definitely look into it.

 

[wptpool]

Your autocover isn't cheap but you will love the options it affords for retaining heat easily, opening early and closing late while keeping leaves out, and safety in general. Nice to go out of town and know that unless someone cuts open your cover, no one is using your pool. I too have a mesh winter cover and like the two cover combo.

I'd recommend a channel main drain over circular drains. Circular drains all have a lip that catches debris and also can impede robot travel. You can't fix those issues afterwards reliably. Like this one... A&A AVSC Dual Suction Pebble Top Channel Drain | Light Gray | 571559

Thank you @bmoreswim! Yes, we're really excited for the autocover. We have young kids though and no plans for a pool fence. We'll have to be vigilant. I'm also going to look into video monitoring and sensors paired with an alarm.
I suspect we'll keep the pool covered the large majority of the time. Not sure how that will affect everything temperature or chemistry-wise.

 

[wptpool]

Thank you @Jimrahbe! That's a great tip regarding the new IC -- will definitely look into it.

BTW @Jimrahbe do you have a preferred CSWG? Would it make sense for us to standardize around Pentair?

 

[bmoreswim]

There may be parts of the summer that the water gets warmer than you'd like but the majority of the time, the cover needing to be on will be a benefit heat-wise. I do prefer a fence combo but they certainly do have drawbacks. I am surprised you have that option in MA. I've typically only heard of allowing pools without fences in other regions.

 

[BigPapaSmurf]

Great tips, thank you so much @BigPapaSmurf ! Do you have a preferred salt system? Should I try to standardize around Pentair?

Since you are using Pentair automation get the Pentair Salt System. It is recommended that you get a system 2X your your total gallons. That way the system doesn't have to work has hard and will last you longer.

 

[wptpool]

There may be parts of the summer that the water gets warmer than you'd like but the majority of the time, the cover needing to be on will be a benefit heat-wise. I do prefer a fence combo but they certainly do have drawbacks. I am surprised you have that option in MA. I've typically only heard of allowing pools without fences in other regions.

Got it re heat.
Fence -- yes, my understanding is that the regulation recently became more liberal (can't remember if that was at the state-level, town-level or a combination). We triple checked with the town that we were in the clear.

 

[AK-]

@AK- Thank you for doing the math! For New England, do you know how many BTUs might make more sense? BTW we're going to have a lot of solar panels. Should I even look at the pool heat pumps? I definitely would if we lived down south or out west but not sure it makes sense here, especially since I imagine we'll be doing the heating in the spring and fall.

I'm not going to make specific recommendation here. But some info can go a long way.

In most cases BTU is BTU. Everything depends on how fast do you want to heat your pool and at what temp you want to keep it.

Heat pumps are amazing, but is the the exception to BTU being BTU...
This is the spec page for Pentair heat pumps you are going to notice that there are 3 columns for BTU. On each header for a BTU column you will have something like 80 80 80 ... the first 80 is air temp, the second 80 is relative humidity and the third 80 is water temp... same applies to the other two columns. The higher the air temp and relative humidity the better a heat pump performs while the lower the air temp and relative humidity the worst it performs. In early-mid May you should not expect more than 86k BTU from a 140k BTU heat pump. Many heat pumps models allow usage of multiple units in parallel to increase the total BTU of the system, but each one will need a branch circuit that will quickly add up. Also heat pump perform really poorly when air temp is below 50F and only models with anti-freeze can operate below 42F.

This year I was able to get my pool to 89F in later May with an undersized heat pump and solar cover. It took about 4 days for water temp to go from 49F to 89F running 24/7 with air temps between 55F-75F and RH close to 80%. But after that it runs about 3 hours per day to maintain my water temp around 89F.

Also a heat pump as a backup of a solar heating may be less than ideal as a cloudy chilling day will affect both.

 

[AK-]

Got it re heat.
Fence -- yes, my understanding is that the regulation recently became more liberal (can't remember if that was at the state-level, town-level or a combination). We triple checked with the town that we were in the clear.

Check with your insurance too. Even if your local codes allow it, not having a fence may increase your homeowners premium due to increased risk. Also make sure to include the pool in your policy as many insurance companies only cover pool related liabilities if it was explicitly listed on your policy.

 

[B.lu]

Hi neighbor! I am in Little Compton. I am just finishing a pool build (electrician is outside finishing up right now). I was initially considering an autocover but I still needed a fence in LC. My Mapfre insurance (through Lapointe in Westport) also says I need a fence. With them, I had to get a 48 inch high fence with self-locking/closing gate. But, great for you if you don't have to. Given where we live, I was discouraged from getting the heat pump instead of gas because I primarily want a heater to prolong the swim season. If budget allows, you could always get both! Use heat pump during the bulk of the summer. I second (or third) switching to a SWG.

 

[wptpool]

Hi neighbor! I am in Little Compton. I am just finishing a pool build (electrician is outside finishing up right now). I was initially considering an autocover but I still needed a fence in LC. My Mapfre insurance (through Lapointe in Westport) also says I need a fence. With them, I had to get a 48 inch high fence with self-locking/closing gate. But, great for you if you don't have to. Given where we live, I was discouraged from getting the heat pump instead of gas because I primarily want a heater to prolong the swim season. If budget allows, you could always get both! Use heat pump during the bulk of the summer. I second (or third) switching to a SWG.

Yes, hi neighbor! Thank you for the info. While from our conversations with the town, I'm confident they won't require us to have a fence in addition to our autocover, the insurance question is an interesting one. This has me looking now at mesh removable fences like this: High Quality Equipment And Tool With Unbeatable Price | VEVOR Official
And thank you for the tips on the heaters. Is it your sense that folks use their gas heaters much in the summer in RI/MA?
I'm naive about them and was guessing they were only (or at least primarily) for extending the season into spring and fall.

 

[wptpool]

Yes, hi neighbor! Thank you for the info. While from our conversations with the town, I'm confident they won't require us to have a fence in addition to our autocover, the insurance question is an interesting one. This has me looking now at mesh removable fences like this: High Quality Equipment And Tool With Unbeatable Price | VEVOR Official
And thank you for the tips on the heaters. Is it your sense that folks use their gas heaters much in the summer in RI/MA?
I'm naive about them and was guessing they were only (or at least primarily) for extending the season into spring and fall.

And congratulations on your pool!

 

[wptpool]

Check with your insurance too. Even if your local codes allow it, not having a fence may increase your homeowners premium due to increased risk. Also make sure to include the pool in your policy as many insurance companies only cover pool related liabilities if it was explicitly listed on your policy.

Thank you for raising the insurance issue -- will call our provider.