Pool Leak Help!

[poolrookie22]

UPDATE:

Okay guys, I appreciate your help, I tried everything I could on my own, but had to call a leak detection specialist out.

Day 1: Leak detection specialist looked around the pool, found a crack on the step, and found many different areas of where the grouting was no longer in place. He dye tested all these areas and found some leaking. He also tested the skimmer, light, main drain, and return jets. Also, did a pressure test on the skimmer and main drain and the pressure held steady. The only thing he was unable to do was pressure test the return jet line (which he initially heard some noise), because there was no valve on the return jet line that attaches to the cartridge filter holder, and he does not cut the piping himself.

Day 2: He came back with a friend of his who regrouted the tiles on the upper part of the pool, applied hydraulic cement to the stair crack, and reinforced the skimmer area. They also cut the pipe for the return jet, plugged them, and then did a pressure test which held steady.

Bottom line is that outside of the missing grout, they did not detect any leaking from the skimmer, pool light, main drain, or return jets. I am now hoping for the best.

 

[poolrookie22]

Update 2:

It appears that the pool may still be leaking, albeit at a slower pace. I'm doing a bucket test just to confirm its not just evaporation, but what else can be leaking? Pretty much everything was tested. Maybe the threading in the return jets has a crack somewhere?

 

[poolrookie22]

Does anyone have any other ideas as to what I can do to try and resolve the leak? The bucket test is showing that there is still a leak

1)Pool is just a rectangular pool about 26'x11'.
2) I am not the original owner so I don't know any of its history besides pool is about 15-17 years old.
3) Pool has white square tiles on all side walls from the bottom up to the beginning of the skimmer and up it has smaller blue tiles.
4) Blue tiles were just re-grouted, as there were a lot of missing/chipped up grout, and the dye test showed water was being sucked in there.
5) No water is leaking at the pump or by the cartridge filter. There are some small air bubbles when the pump is on, and when the pump turns off some water escapes from the pump lid and you can here a hissing sound. But I don't think that's a cause of water loss. I probably just need to lube the new o-ring I got for it.
6) Professional leak detector came and did the following: Dye test where the grout was missing, dye test at the light, skimmer, return jets, main drain. Visual inspection by diving in the pool of the light, skimmer, return jets, main drain. Pressure and listened to the skimmer line, main drain line, and return jet line. All held steady pressure at 11 psi the same pressure as the cartridge filter when the pump is on.

What do I do now??

 

[CaptainCannonball]

It's a shame that you hired a professional to find your leak and they weren't able to solve your problem. Are you saying the whole side of the pool is tile? If so, how is the condition of the grout under water?

I would be inclined to hire someone else to help identify your leak. You could shut your skimmer off, pull water from only the main drain and let your pool drain until it stops. That may help identify where the leak is coming from.

If if you say your pool doesn't lose water when your pump is running, I would shut down your main drain, run the pump 24/7 and do a bucket test. Next I would shut down your skimmer, run the pump continuously and do another bucket evaporation test. If you don't lose water during one of these tests, but you do with the other that could help you identify if and where your suction side leak is.

 

[poolrookie22]

It's a shame that you hired a professional to find your leak and they weren't able to solve your problem. Are you saying the whole side of the pool is tile? If so, how is the condition of the grout under water?

I would be inclined to hire someone else to help identify your leak. You could shut your skimmer off, pull water from only the main drain and let your pool drain until it stops. That may help identify where the leak is coming from.

If if you say your pool doesn't lose water when your pump is running, I would shut down your main drain, run the pump 24/7 and do a bucket test. Next I would shut down your skimmer, run the pump continuously and do another bucket evaporation test. If you don't lose water during one of these tests, but you do with the other that could help you identify if and where your suction side leak is.

Captain, thanks for your thoughts. A few things.

1) I did hire a professional leak detector, he did all the testing, and was very thorough (about 2.5 hours) of testing.
2) Yes, the each side of the pool is white square tile, probably 8"x8" or so. As far as I can tell the grouting looks to be okay. However, I never thought grouting was supposed to be the barrier to a leak.
3) Hiring someone else would be costly, I'm already $700 in to this between the leak detection and the re-grouting of the top blue tiles.
4) I didn't mean that my pool doesn't lose water when the pump is running, I meant its not leaking from my pool equipment.
5) I am doing a bucket test now with the pump on 24 hours.

I just can't figure out where or what else to look for at this point, and feel like this can't be solved, which is frustrating. I cannot afford to continue adding water all the time, especially since it brings the chemicals out of whack.

 

[poolrookie22]

Okay I did the bucket test with the pump off and had the 1/2" leak vs. 1/8" evaporation. However, when I ran the pump on with the bucket test for 24 hours, I did not notice significant leaking, the levels were either the same or very close. At this point, what's the next thing to do to try and isolate? It seems like it must be a piping issue at this point?

 

[pooldv]

Yes, it seems like it would be a plumbing leak on the return side between the pump and the pool returns. There is not enough pressure to leak when the pump is off but when the pump is on it pushes water out of the leak in the plumbing.

Edit: I read the post above wrong, this is incorrect. See next post.

 

[CaptainCannonball]

I have to disagree, with the pump providing suction it is not allowing/ reducing the water that is leaking while the pump is running and providing negative pressure in the suction side lines between either the skimmer and pump or the main drain and pump. Running the pump while isolating the main drain/skimmer will help further narrow down where the leak is coming from.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't very clear, I believe the leak is between the skimmer and pump or between the main drain and pump.

 

[pooldv]

Right! I read that backwards that is was leaking with pump on and not when pump off. Nice catch!

 

[jmhjgh]

Call the leak detection company back out. There may still be cracks or a leak in the plumbing that have not been located.

 

[tstex]

Call the leak detection company back out. There may still be cracks or a leak in the plumbing that has not been located.

What does your contract say/SOW w your leak detection company? if it is all time and material, then it depends on if anything they did was not thorough the first time, you would have some recourse. But, w him doing the test, that might not be too objective per se. I would have them retest the suspect areas that the board has identified. Or, hire someone else and have them test these two areas to gain a 2nd opinion. I know you are [and we all] are on a budget, but the constant water bill and most importantly, the peace of mind is hard to calculate the cost to you.

My next question is: If the pumping to the main drain or skimmer returns are faulty, what is the fix and how much does it cost? Is there a water-based additive or something that you add and it fills the holes, or is it drain and dig time?

Either way, the OP needs a solution bc I know this would drive me crazy. Do not know if this is "Forum Acceptable", but if the OP posted where they lived, is it an option for someone to PM them and hook-up to lend a helping hand? Lot of great folks on this board.

keep us posted and best of luck - tstex

PS - do leak detection comp's make guarantees or provide specific deliverable?

 

[tstex]

just did a search and there are pool leak solutions in a liquid form, but you need the proper equipment to reverse the flow of water to allow it to properly seal, then needs 48 hrs to cure. Should be done by someone that definitely knows what they are doing?

pool-rookie, you might want to ask around your n-borhood and find out if there is a really good and honest pool repair company that performs this type of work. get a quote from them and also see if they have any techniques for determining if the drain/return pipes are indeed your problem? Just need to find someone that you can trust to do the right thing for you...word of mouth referrals usually provide the best people - BTW, what part of the country is your pool so folks might be able to provide you an honest referral?

 

[CaptainCannonball]

As some have mentioned on this forum, the main drain could be effectively abandoned if that is where the leak is coming from. It could just be plugged at the drain and the pump plumbed only to the skimmer.

Its difficult to diagnose over over text replies on a website, that's why I would like to see the OP hire a different leak detection company to help remedy their situation. Money is money and if it isn't in the budget it just can't be done.

 

[poolrookie22]

Hi guys, 3 different visits, and no resolution. All pressure testing on the lines look fine, no water leaking near equipment. I do have a very large tree that's probably about 30-50 years old about 20-25 feet away from the pool. Is it possible the roots have extended enough underground and powerful enough to break through a cement in ground pool and cause a leak somewhere? I do not see any of my pavers lifting up in that area or anything out of the ordinary. But I am so frustrated because the leak continues, the pool can't be balanced right continually adding water, and its basically increasing my water bill and making the pool unusable. What options do I have now?

 

[jmhjgh]

Very frustrating. I had a leak at a return fitting and the gasket was not sealing against the pool walls. The lines would also test ok as it was not the actual line that was leaking. Have you let it leak down until it stops leaking?

 

[poolrookie22]

It continued to leak below the skimmers, but did not let it get too low. I pay a pool guy for cleaning each month, and when it gets below the skimmer and I have to turn the skimmer off it gets dirty very fast as all the dirt just stays on the sides and bottom of the pool and I am concerned about it staining. The leak guy took of all the return fittings and inspected them. It is beyond frustrating.

 

[jmhjgh]

If you can't find the leak, you might have to let it leak until it stops. Or at least until it is lower than the returns and lights.

 

[CaptainCannonball]

Earlier in the thread the OP was making progress narrowing down the leak. OP mentioned that while the pump was running there was no leak.

To me, this indicates a leak between the bottom drain -->pump or/and a leak between the skimmer --> pump. Bucket test while one or the other is isolated will further narrow down where the leak is.

To clarify, while running the pump, turn off the main drain and perform the bucket test. If no leak than the leak is probably between the skimmer and pump. If the leak persists than your leak is probably between the main drain and pump.

Next step would be, while running the pump, turn off the skimmer and perform a bucket test. This will positively identify where the leak is.

I know OP had some "experts" out and all the lines tested good but let common sense prevail

 

[poolrookie22]

Earlier in the thread the OP was making progress narrowing down the leak. OP mentioned that while the pump was running there was no leak.

To me, this indicates a leak between the bottom drain -->pump or/and a leak between the skimmer --> pump. Bucket test while one or the other is isolated will further narrow down where the leak is.

To clarify, while running the pump, turn off the main drain and perform the bucket test. If no leak than the leak is probably between the skimmer and pump. If the leak persists than your leak is probably between the main drain and pump.

Next step would be, while running the pump, turn off the skimmer and perform a bucket test. This will positively identify where the leak is.

I know OP had some "experts" out and all the lines tested good but let common sense prevail

Running the bucket test again 24 hrs with pump on, and 24 hours with it out and will report.

 

[poolrookie22]

Okay, I did a 11 hour bucket test with the pump on and skimmer and main drain on. The bucket lost 1/16" and the pool lost 1/4". I am now going to try it with the pump off and will report. In the meantime, should I get some return line plugs? I have 4 return lines. I was told I should plug all 4 of them with the pump off and wait a day to see if there is any leaking. Is this a good idea?