Pool Contractor Issues- - Any Advice Appreciated

[Dirk]

Lol. If you wouldn't pay more than a small deposit and wholesale equivalent for the first payment, you wouldn't get a pool built in San Antonio at all.

I talked to many builders and argued payment schedules, none of them would agree to something like that.

Now, none of them asked for 50% up front though, either... Not even close. A more reasonable 20-30% per major milestone is more common.

And that's on the consumer as much as the contractor. Consumer's regularly pay too much up front, or don't insist on a proper contract, or payment schedule, or performance clauses, so that becomes the norm, and that has put contractors in the power position: that if someone doesn't want to play ball with him, someone else is waiting in line that will. If consumers all practiced good sense in this regard, then contractors would have to comply. But that's not the way the world works.

And to be clear, I wouldn't expect a contractor to pony up for an entire build and get paid only upon completion. A PB can't be expected to gamble the entire cost of a pool, or even a large chunk of it at a time. There should be a handful of progress payments, to keep both parties in check. Milestones is a very reasonable way to go, for all involved. Just more than two or three, in my book.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

I have friends who have foreclosed on clients properties..

 

[EvaFrank]

I gave a painter a $500 deposit years ago. He never showed up on scheduled date, made excuses, stopped returning calls, disconnected his number. I contacted the State's Attorney office and filed a complaint. They forwarded my information to the State's Home Improvement Commission who found him and took him to court. He was convicted of fraud (not his 1st) and sentenced to 6 weeks in prison plus repay. I think every state has a way for consumers to file a complaint against a contractor.

 

[Dirk]

I gave a painter a $500 deposit years ago. He never showed up on scheduled date, made excuses, stopped returning calls, disconnected his number. I contacted the State's Attorney office and filed a complaint. They forwarded my information to the State's Home Improvement Commission who found him and took him to court. He was convicted of fraud (not his 1st) and sentenced to 6 weeks in prison plus repay. I think every state has a way for consumers to file a complaint against a contractor.

Oh, man. I thought I had a good ending to my contractor woes. I got a chunk out of his wallet, but the thought of him spending a few weeks in a damp cell, to think about his actions, now that would have been real justice. All he ponied up was money to cover the damage he did to my pool. The minimum. The stress he put me through, and the effort needed to get him to pay, remain unrecovered.

On the flip side, at least a live in a state, a country, where some amount of resolution is even available. Count blessings, be grateful. It was, after all, an argument about a swimming pool, in my backyard, full of 12000 gallons of water!! There are plenty of people that would be happy to have one gallon of water, period!!

 

[todd.brock]

Is there a date in the contract that states when work must be completed? I am I a similar holding pattern. We were led to believe , or flat out told rather, build in April /May weather dependent. We were then told June 10. It’s now July 6 with nothing more than a we are getting close. We have written off swimming this summer. I put 10% down. If I could just get my money back and walk away, I would. I’m ****** and disappointed at same time. Not sure I have any legal recourse other than bailing on contract. The PB would probably let me out b/c I’m sure he’s tired of hearing from me. I truly feel your pain.

 

[Dirk]

Uhg! If your state is like mine... CA has crazy-strict codes describing precisely what must be included in a legal contract between contractor and consumer. And then there are the "generally included" clauses, like start dates and payment schedules, and the pro-consumer clauses, like performance clauses. In all my years of dealing with contractors, I've never been presented with a contract that in any way even approaches what they are legally bound to contain, let alone any of these other niceties. The laws exist, but there is no enforcement, so contractors have no incentive to provide decent contracts if they don't want to. I'm not saying none do, I'm just saying I've never seen one. And when I brought up such grievances (half a dozen code violations) to the CA Contractors Board, thinking they would be nails in my contractors coffin, all he got was a letter, in his private file, that is not available for me to see, let alone any other unsuspecting consumer. Actually, I was told they would review whether he was going to get a letter or not. I don't actually know that he ever did, and can't find out. Some enforcement...

But as I said, the CA Board has other tricks up its sleeves, so your state's Board is a good step to try.

To Todd: does your state require contracts to have a 3-day cancellation clause? Does your contract have one? Without one, a CA consumer can invoke cancellation at any date, beyond 3-days, and expect a full refund. ("Expect" and "Get" being two different things, of course...) Same advice for you: first step, write a demand letter. Give him a deadline. Mention suing him otherwise. Send it certified. That won't improve your relationship with him, so that's something to consider. But this guy is pushing you around, to satisfy his own scheduling snafus. From the sound of it, he's probably inserted an entire build in front of yours, maybe because that customer said now or never. So he used your good nature to sneak in an extra job this summer. Things do go wrong beyond a contractors control, that necessitate schedule shifting (subs, for example), but that should be in the two-week range, not the two-month range (IMO). Show this guy a little grit, see what happens...

 

[todd.brock]

Dirk,

Thanks for your feedback. We do have a 3 day recision period. We signed Feb 27 of this year, so the window has passed. We are trying to decide if we want to just wait out the summer- still no contact or permits as of today- and hope it gets installed in time to swim for at least a couple weeks. Or broach the subject of getting our deposit back and approaching a new builder for next year.

My brain tells me to wait it out b/c we will be swimming eventually this summer. Or fall. Or winter.

 

[Dirk]

Dirk,

Thanks for your feedback. We do have a 3 day recision period. We signed Feb 27 of this year, so the window has passed. We are trying to decide if we want to just wait out the summer- still no contact or permits as of today- and hope it gets installed in time to swim for at least a couple weeks. Or broach the subject of getting our deposit back and approaching a new builder for next year.

My brain tells me to wait it out b/c we will be swimming eventually this summer. Or fall. Or winter.

Infuriating. But we probably shouldn't hijack this thread more than we just did. Let me know if you start your own, and I will commiserate with you there!

 

[MikeyC]

Great information and thanks to all. Much appreciated.

UPDATE: The new builder finally seems to have come through and I now have a very large hole in my back yard with the pool frame going in! We are very excited but also trying to temper our expectations given what we have been through to this point.

To answer a few questions, the contractor was given half ($17K) of the $34K cost for the pool. I now see this was not normal and wish I had questioned this more. I figure that of that $17K the equipment I have is likely about 6-8K worth. The new builder was given $5K from the original contractor. We still likely have some work to do collecting more from him but he says he ordered the liner and cover.

I am very much hoping we get this settled soon but the great news is they are here every day right now building us a pool! Very exciting!

Thanks to you all. This is a great site full of very helpful people!

 

[Dirk]

If the original contractor gave money to the new one, and is "cooperating" in some way, that is a very good sign. That's what you want to see... that they eventually come to their senses and do the right thing. And, of course, you get something at least close to what you paid for. All good. Glad to hear it.

Keep us posted...

 

[MikeyC]

Sorry to hear this. It is very stressful! We now have a pool going in and are excited but I know we have a long way to go before we get through this. Good luck to you as well- hope it all works out for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Todd.Brock -

Sorry to hear this. It is very stressful! We now have a pool going in and are excited but I know we have a long way to go before we get through this. Good luck to you as well- hope it all works out for you.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Great information and thanks to all. Much appreciated.

UPDATE: The new builder finally seems to have come through and I now have a very large hole in my back yard with the pool frame going in! We are very excited but also trying to temper our expectations given what we have been through to this point.

To answer a few questions, the contractor was given half ($17K) of the $34K cost for the pool. I now see this was not normal and wish I had questioned this more. I figure that of that $17K the equipment I have is likely about 6-8K worth. The new builder was given $5K from the original contractor. We still likely have some work to do collecting more from him but he says he ordered the liner and cover.

I am very much hoping we get this settled soon but the great news is they are here every day right now building us a pool! Very exciting!

Thanks to you all. This is a great site full of very helpful people!

Wow.. I think contractor # 1 has no clue relating to construction litigation, by giving funds to a third party he does not make you whole & his liability stands.. if you were a bad guy, his goose can be cooked.

I’m guessing he is a do it on a handshake good ole boy???

 

[MikeyC]

Wow.. I think contractor # 1 has no clue relating to construction litigation, by giving funds to a third party he does not make you whole & his liability stands.. if you were a bad guy, his goose can be cooked.

I’m guessing he is a do it on a handshake good ole boy???

To clarify, the contractor is one who found and hired the new builder. Seems he wants to get this done and me out of his hair.

BTW- They are here on a Sunday working. This makes 4 days in a row! Very reassuring!

 

[Dirk]

So is contractor #2 working as a sub contractor for #1, or is #2 working for you?

 

[MikeyC]

So is contractor #2 working as a sub contractor for #1, or is #2 working for you?

Yes- seems he worked out a deal with the new builder. It is a little confusing as to who is working for who but at this point, as long as my pool is getting built I am feeling alot better about the situation.

Also, the new builder seems to be very much into attention to detail. So far he seems to be doing a great job. Here is here again today - 5 days in a row! I have a giant pile of gravel in my yard as well!

 

[Dirk]

Yay! Progress!!

Unless you signed a contract with the new builder, it sounds like he is working as a subcontractor. And that's fine. One caution though, again based only on my experiences in CA. Subcontractors here can lien your property if they don't get paid. I'm not exactly sure how it all works, I believe they have to file something in advance to take advantage of the process, but the consumer (you!) should make sure all subcontractors are getting paid, and providing lien releases along the way. Certainly before the final payment is made, all lien releases should be accounted for. Something for you to learn a bit about before you write that last check...

 

[MikeyC]

Yay! Progress!!

Unless you signed a contract with the new builder, it sounds like he is working as a subcontractor. And that's fine. One caution though, again based only on my experiences in CA. Subcontractors here can lien your property if they don't get paid. I'm not exactly sure how it all works, I believe they have to file something in advance to take advantage of the process, but the consumer (you!) should make sure all subcontractors are getting paid, and providing lien releases along the way. Certainly before the final payment is made, all lien releases should be accounted for. Something for you learn a bit about before you write that last check...

Good advice. Will certainly have this conversation. Thanks!

 

[Waterfan]

In TN, the sub can certainly put a lien on the property. That happened to us. Our attorney said it wasn't even cause to say the contract had been breached. We also know the licensing bureau in our area of TN will just say everything "is a civil matter" based on copies of other complaints we received copies of. My suggestion before hiring is to find out if they have a history of bankruptcy (ours does come to find out much too late).