Plumbing and elevated equipment.

[Ronliz82]

my pool equipment is installed in a elevated area, roughly 5ft above the two skimmers and 14 feet above the main drain. My pool builder used 1.5inch PVC for the whole plumbing.

Each skimmer and Main drain has its own separate 1.5inch PVC run to the equipment manifold.

And for returns I have 4 returns, and 4 deck jets. Each set of returns and each set of deck jets have their one 1.5 inch PVC run back to the pool. There is a total 4 lines coming out from the return manifold at the equipment pad.


I want to change my equipment pad manifolds and equipment plumbing to 2inches. The idea behind it is to increase water movement and reduce pressure. As 2inch plumbing on the equipment would be able to suck more water of those 1.5” individual lines better than a 1.5 inch single line receiving water from 3 individual lines.

what you guys think, is there something I am missing?

For context, I have a 1.5hp single speed Jandy FloPro. Have heck of a hard time priming, think becuse of the height of the equipment.

 

[mas985]

Welcome to the forum!

Doubt you would notice a difference. Flow rate is related to the head loss in all the plumbing, not just the pad. So even though you may reduce the pad plumbing by a couple of feet of head, in the scheme of things, that won't affect total flow rate much. The filter and heater contribute much more to head loss than the pad pipe. Based upon your setup and about 35' of pipe run to/from the pool, the gain in flow rate would be about 3 GPM which is less than 5% of total flow rate.

For context, I have a 1.5hp single speed Jandy FloPro. Have **** of a hard time priming, think becuse of the height of the equipment.

Changing the pad pipe size isn't likely to change that.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ron,

I agree with Mark that replumbing your pad will be a waste of your time. You won't be able to see any appreciable change.

When you shut off your pump, does it stay full of water, or does most of it drain back into the pool?

It should stay full of water, making priming pretty easy. If it drains back into the pool, you most likely have an air leak.

Think back to when you used to put your thumb over the end of a straw and then pull it out of a drink.. The drink stayed in the straw.. The same basic thing should happen to the water in your suction line.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ronliz82]

Welcome to the forum!

Doubt you would notice a difference. Flow rate is related to the head loss in all the plumbing, not just the pad. So even though you may reduce the pad plumbing by a couple of feet of head, in the scheme of things, that won't affect total flow rate much. The filter and heater contribute much more to head loss than the pad pipe. Based upon your setup and about 35' of pipe run to/from the pool, the gain in flow rate would be about 3 GPM which is less than 5% of total flow rate.


Changing the pad pipe size isn't likely to change that.

appreciated the replay

My thought process was that the 2” pipe were going to be able to increase flow almost 40%. Since multiple 1.5inch lines go in to the manifold. If I upsize the manifold to 2inches along the rest of the above ground plumbing. Shouldn’t that increase flow rate on the suction side to 62GPM at 6fps instead of the current 37GPM.

I am still trying to understand how all Pool stuff works, wish I knew about the importance of plumbing size when I hire the PB. He told me that 1.5 inch pipes was the standard. That we didn’t need anything bigger.

 

[Ronliz82]

Ron,

I agree with Mark that replumbing your pad will be a waste of your time. You won't be able to see any appreciable change.

When you shut off your pump, does it stay full of water, or does most of it drain back into the pool?

It should stay full of water, making priming pretty easy. If it drains back into the pool, you most likely have an air leak.

Think back to when you used to put your thumb over the end of a straw and then pull it out of a drink.. The drink stayed in the straw.. The same basic thing should happen to the water in your suction line.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I will probably just let the plumbing be. My PB emphasized that we didn’t needed more than 1.5 inch pipes since each skimmer had their own separate line and the main drain was also on their own. But it took me by surprise when the manifold along with the above ground plumbing was also 1.5inches. It didn’t make sense to me.

-when I have the filter multi-port on filter, it stays full of water. But when I start rotating the multi port to backwash, waste or recirculate, it starts loosing water immediately. I have to do it fast and turn the pump right away, if not I would loose my prime.

Same applies to remove the pump basket, I have to close all the 7 valves on both suction And return side so I don’t loose prime.

 

[Ronliz82]

Maybe a check valve would help on the suction side before water enters to prevent the loose of prime?

I know my biggest issue is that my equipment is so much higher than the water level. But PB said that would make me a problem when I pointed at where I preferred the equipment to be. The biggest paint is getting it prime after is lost. Concern I would burn the pump as it runs dry for a minute before water starts flowing

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ron,

A check valve before the pump would prevent the pump from draining back into the pool, but when you take the pump lid off, the filter will still drain down.

You can keep the filter from draining down by adding a check valve between the pump and the filter... But.. Check valves add resistance to the flow of water.

Another option would be to add two manual Jandy valves.. When open they have very little flow resistance.. You just have to manually close them when doing maintenance.. and of course remember to open them as you turn the pump back on.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ronliz82]

Ron,

A check valve before the pump would prevent the pump from draining back into the pool, but when you take the pump lid off, the filter will still drain down.

You can keep the filter from draining down by adding a check valve between the pump and the filter... But.. Check valves add resistance to the flow of water.

Another option would be to add two manual Jandy valves.. When open they have very little flow resistance.. You just have to manually close them when doing maintenance.. and of course remember to open them as you turn the pump back on.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you for that solution, I will look in to adding those valves instead of check valves

 

[mas985]

My thought process was that the 2” pipe were going to be able to increase flow almost 40%. Since multiple 1.5inch lines go in to the manifold. If I upsize the manifold to 2inches along the rest of the above ground plumbing. Shouldn’t that increase flow rate on the suction side to 62GPM at 6fps instead of the current 37GPM.

Unfortunately, no. You are assuming that pipe velocity is constant which it is not. For a given pump and plumbing setup, the smaller the pipe, the higher the velocity in the pipe even though flow rate may decrease some. The setup you have right now should be delivering well over 62 GPM. What is the current filter pressure?

If you want to make a change, you should really think about a VS pump. You can adjust the flow rate to whatever you need and save energy in the process.

 

[Ronliz82]

Unfortunately, no. You are assuming that pipe velocity is constant which it is not. For a given pump and plumbing setup, the smaller the pipe, the higher the velocity in the pipe even though flow rate may decrease some. The setup you have right now should be delivering well over 62 GPM. What is the current filter pressure?

If you want to make a change, you should really think about a VS pump. You can adjust the flow rate to whatever you need and save energy in the process.

Appreciated the reply.

The sand filter runs a constant pressure of 20PSI when clean. I normally do backwashes when it reaches 25 to 30 PSIs.

I keep reading that the sand filter should run at 10 PSI but, no matter how much I backwash, or even when brand new it was between 18 to 20 PSI.

At the end the conclusion is upsizing the above ground plumbing will not deliver noticeable benefits.

The contract with the pool builder stated that I was supposed to get at least a 2Hp VS pump. I was gone on a trip when equipment was installed, he said the VS pump was unable to pull water or even get primed due to the equipment height in relation to the pool. We are still working out some of the discrepancies of the equipment installed vs what was stated in the contract. The pump is only one of the items.


he originally installed Jandy 1.65 HP VSP. But he said he could not make it work so he swapped it with a 1.5hp single speed pump. He blamed the elevation of the equipment. Still doesn’t make sense to me. Final payment has not been issued due to all the discrepancies.

 

[Ronliz82]

Appreciated the reply.

The sand filter runs a constant pressure of 20PSI when clean. I normally do backwashes when it reaches 25 to 30 PSIs.

I keep reading that the sand filter should run at 10 PSI but, no matter how much I backwash, or even when brand new it was between 18 to 20 PSI.

At the end the conclusion is upsizing the above ground plumbing will not deliver noticeable benefits.

The contract with the pool builder stated that I was supposed to get at least a 2Hp VS pump. I was gone on a trip when equipment was installed, he said the VS pump was unable to pull water or even get primed due to the equipment height in relation to the pool. We are still working out some of the discrepancies of the equipment installed vs what was stated in the contract. The pump is

he originally installed Jandy 1.65 HP VSP. But he said he could not make it work so he swapped it with a 1.5hp single speed pump. He blamed the elevation of the equipment. Still doesn’t make sense to me. Final payment has not been issued due to all the discrepancies.

 

[mas985]

Jandy makes a 2.7 HP VS pump, FloPro VSFHP270, which should be drop in replacement for the one you have. That should have no problem at all priming.

With that pressure, the flow rate would be around 58 GPM. I looked up your filter and that particular filter has quite a bit of head loss. At 58 GPM, it has over 20' of head loss. This is part of the reason why upsizing the plumbing on the pad might not help all that much in terms of head loss.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0579200.pdf?force=1

 

[Ronliz82]

Unfortunately, no. You are assuming that pipe velocity is constant which it is not. For a given pump and plumbing setup, the smaller the pipe, the higher the velocity in the pipe even though flow rate may decrease some. The setup you have right now should be delivering well over 62 GPM. What is the current filter pressure?

If you want to make a change, you should really think about a VS pump. You can adjust the flow rate to whatever you need and save energy in the process.

Jandy makes a 2.7 HP VS pump, FloPro VSFHP270, which should be drop in replacement for the one you have. That should have no problem at all priming.

With that pressure, the flow rate would be around 58 GPM. I looked up your filter and that particular filter has quite a bit of head loss. At 58 GPM, it has over 20' of head loss. This is part of the reason why upsizing the plumbing on the pad might not help all that much in terms of head loss.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0579200.pdf?force=1

appreciated. Will just keep what I got for bow. I will bring up that pump you mentioned, and probably add two valves. One before and one after the pump to keep the lines and the filter prime when working on the pump.