Please help - first time blowing out lines...

[conk12301]

Hi everyone-

I decided to take a stab at closing the pool on my own and it seems I've run into some trouble finishing the job. If anyone has any advice, I'd greatly appreciate it!

I have in ground pool with spa attached as well as waterfall. So far, I have used a compressor to successfully (I think lol - fingers crossed) blow out and plug off...
- 6 return lines in the spa
- 2 skimmer lines - one deep end, one shallow end
- 2 return lines in pool wall - again one on deep end, one on shallow end

I am having trouble with...
- drain at the bottom of the spa - I shut off all the valves I could find in order to direct the pressure from compressor directly to the spa drain. But I couldn't get any bubbles to blow out of the spa drain in order to air lock. So, I let the compressor blow for a bit and shut the valve. Hoping this created a little air lock, but I really can't tell if the water line budged or not. Seems like blindly crossing my fingers on this one. I could hear some water clunking around when I turned compressor off. When I knock on the spa drain pipe, it doesn't exactly sound hollow as some other lines do. Any ideas or suggestions? I could probably snake some anti freeze in, blow again, and lock off. At least there'd be some AF in there this time. good idea?

- main drain at the bottom of the pool, which is hooked into the deep end skimmer - I read that you can try to shop vac the water level down and then air lock that. But I couldn't get a tight enough seal from the shop vac in the main drain line. Ended up just sloshing around all the water in the skimmer. Deep end is 11 feet, so I doubt my shop vac is strong enough to clear the whole line anyway. My pool guy last year did seal off this line somehow - so I guess it can be done? SHould I just shove in some foam rope and plug it?

- two more lines in the top of the deep end - see the picture attached. They are covered normally so I am assuming they are suction lines. And they didn't react at all to blowing out any of the return/skimmer lines. Does this mean they're probably hooked into the main drain line as well? Since I'm not sure the origin of these lines, I don't have any ideas how to go about blowing them out. Please help. Again, I could probably get some anti freeze in here and plug, but not sure if that's as optimal as blowing out.

Any advice as to how to more confidently blow out these remaining lines? or better ideas for Plan B? :|

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

With a complex system you really need a cyclone, especially if you're blowing the whole system. I pull my equipment and blow each leg individually. I don't know what your people charge, but I do know it's more than a cyclone. . It also works for in ground sprinklers, that was another unnecessary expense that kept increasing.

As a seldom used tool, it will last a generation or two and amount to peanuts per year in the grand scheme of things.

The shop vac won't blow the main drain so shove a piece of 1 inch foam rope down that pipe and use a expanding rubber plug to seal it. You may need to tape the rope to a dowel or such to get it down the pipe. Get a couple feet if you can, or as far as you can if not.

The other lower drains/returns may not blow so great either with a shop vac.

I'm not a fan of compressors because if there is any small leak anywhere, it won't have the pressure to do the job, and many don't have the SCFM to do the job in the first place.

Here's my write up on the matter if it helps :

Closing with shop vac.

Today was the day for closing and it went great with a 6HP shop vac. I hooked my blower up for fun after, and there really wasn't much left but some spray. Anywho I wanted to do a write up for all the folks wondering if they could save a chunk of change and tackle their own closing...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[conk12301]

Thanks for the recommendation! Not opposed to getting a cyclone as long as I'm confident it will do the job right. Would a cyclone clear the main drain and spa drain? What type of adapter would it need to hook into the main drain in skimmer?

 

[Newdude]

Not opposed to getting a cyclone as long as I'm confident it will do the job right.

It will remove any and all doubts when you see a guyser shooting out the other end, then violent drips flying.

Would a cyclone clear the main drain and spa drain?

With tons of bubbles to again remove all doubt.

What type of adapter would it need to hook into the main drain in skimmer?

This piece screws into the cyclone

This hose smacks onto the adapter. The smaller hose than the shop vac is easier to line up with the open pipe and it has such volume that you can even be a little off and it'll still work fine.

 

[conk12301]

Awesome. Thank you!! I think I am going to go for it. If I slide the cyclone hose right into where the filter basket would be, should it blow out the lines -- even without air tight seal?

 

[Newdude]

If I slide the cyclone hose right into where the filter basket would be

The skimmer and the pump both have baskets but not the filter. In the skimmer you just hold it tight to the pipes and it still works even with some leaking out.

It's a one trick pony but boy is it good at what it does.

Also, when you have bubbles shooting out of the drains, make sure to close the valve and seal them under pressure. The pipe fills as fast as a dunked straw if you try to shut off the cyclone and then seal the pipe. If you can't find a way to jam the hose in the skimmer pipe, you'll need a 2nd person to turn the valve at the pad.

 

[conk12301]

Ah right, my mistake in terminology. Looks like the cyclone should definitely blow out the main drain from the skimmer.

Worried about the spa drain still. It seems I only have access to that line by hooking up to the pump basket area. I had been using the compressor to blow through the small drain on the underside of the pump. Is it possible to blow the cyclone through the pump area instead of skimmer?

Thanks again!

 

[Newdude]

Is it possible to blow the cyclone through the pump area instead of skimmer?

Yup. You can use a similar fitting to adapt a spare pump lid. @PoolGate has a nice video how to. (Hang tight for him) If you don't have a drill press, a vise or some clamps will hold it steady while you use a regular drill.

Or you could probably fatten the cyclone hose to the pump hole size with electrical tape.

Thanks again!

Anytime

We got you.

 

[Newdude]

Also, opening early is just as important as closing late.

 

[wireform]

Just so you know you can't air lock the spa drain as that only works for the main drain as it's deep. I have one piece of advice but you do as you feel comfortable. Any mistakes on your part can be very costly next season if you froze a line. I'd higher the professional and let him do it so you can watch it closely and take notes. It's cheap insurance and money well spent for your private 1 on 1 informative lesson.

 

[Newdude]

I'm always a big fan of that myself. Hand whoever shows up $20 each when they get there and tell them you need to learn. You'll be amazed at their pleasant attitude. Or you won't feel bad for shadowing them at least if they're still grumps. Lol.

But take pics of each step then you can watch them in reverse for opening. Next year it's already your 3rd rodeo and it's easy peasy.

But armed with a cyclone, if you're the least bit handy, it's pretty simple. It makes WAY more sense when you shove the blower in and water flies from one end somewhere. Then you fumble around with valves to get them all. You might blow some of them twice. So what ? It's an education as you go. Lol.

You tweak a couple things next year already knowing most of what didn't work well and then you're golden.

 

[sande005]

All good advice above. Just to add personal experience: I used my compressor for years. A 10 gal electric. It barely had the volume to blow out lines, so I would have to carefully increase pressure to get enough to force water out. In my early years, I was dumb, and did too much pressure with nothing open - and exploded my pump housing (!) I was very lucky and could have been badly injured. So learned to never get the pressure too high, and always have an escape route for the air. But it took a lot of running to refill the air tank, then repeated bumping to get the water out of a line. Repeat for all the other lines. Never confident that I got all the water out - so also added antifreeze to the lines that I could.

Last year, FINALLY bought a Cyclone. Game changer. It is capable of a very high volume, but at a much lower pressure. So able to push out a lot of water in one shot, and still enough to even get the deep drain to bubble. Yet much less risk of damage to the systems if I do it wrong. It greatly speeded up that part of the task, and no hauling of the bigger/heavier compressor from the garage out back to the pool.

 

[conk12301]

Just so you know you can't air lock the spa drain as that only works for the main drain as it's deep. I have one piece of advice but you do as you feel comfortable. Any mistakes on your part can be very costly next season if you froze a line. I'd higher the professional and let him do it so you can watch it closely and take notes. It's cheap insurance and money well spent for your private 1 on 1 informative lesson.

Hmmm - so what if I fully drain the spa and then blow out whatever remains in the spa drain line? Would that work?

 

[conk12301]

Awesome advice - thanks everyone! I ordered a cyclone. Confident that should get the main drain. Still little worried about the spa drain. If I can't get that blown out, I'll bring in a professional to finish the job just to be sure.

 

[wireform]

Hmmm - so what if I fully drain the spa and then blow out whatever remains in the spa drain line? Would that work?

You can easily blow it out with the cyclone as I do a few. Drain spa completely to the very last drop, remove the floor drain grates and blow them clear. Have the expandable plugs for them and half gallon of antifreeze in each drain. The spa jets are tricky as there's many so you need to plug a few and go back and forth unplugging and plugging alternately till they're clear. I find that I need to remove the air blower motor and also blow down that pipe as that is a definite must do. Until you blow down the pipe the spraying from the jets never seems to cease. There too some antifreeze in each jet. I've also seen recommended to add back a foot of waterto start the winter but I never do as the precip before it gets cold does it for me.

 

[conk12301]

Mission accomplished w the cyclone. Total game changer. Didn't need a perfect seal and still blew out the lines, even spa drain and main drain. Only tough nut to crack was far skimmer - only got a couple small bubbles at first... but I put the cyclone right in the skimmer and blew it back to the pad and there was no problem. Appreciate all the help! Probably broke even money wise this year, but pretty cool that I'll save on closing from here on out! Thanks again.