pH Keeps Rising?

[Dirk]

Why hasent anyone come up with a floating liquid dispenser yet??

Uhg, I'm with you. I'll be firing up my SWG in a few weeks, but where I live I'm looking at a lifetime of liquid chlorine dosing during the winter months. I want a chlorine tab that has no CYA in it!!

 

[pinkfloydeffect]

Uhg, I'm with you. I'll be firing up my SWG in a few weeks, but where I live I'm looking at a lifetime of liquid chlorine dosing during the winter months. I want a chlorine tab that has no CYA in it!!

From my understanding, without CYA it would not be possible to compress it into a solid brick form of chlorine.

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[Dirk]

From my understanding, without CYA it would not be possible to compress it into a solid brick form of chlorine.

Yes, I've heard that. I don't care. If they can put a pool on the moon, they should be able to make a CYA-less puck, I say!! :sad:

 

[pinkfloydeffect]

If you ask me we never went to the moon period, never even mind a pool. But anyway, I added enough acid to my pool yesterday to drop the pH to 7 (to eat up TA). I just tested the water and the pH is at 7.2 and my TA did drop but only to 70. Should I wait and see what happens to the pH or should I add more acid right now @ 7.2 to lower my TA to 60??

 

[JamesW]

Let the pH get to 7.8 to see if it stops rising. If if goes beyond 7.8, lower it to 7.8.

 

[pinkfloydeffect]

If if goes beyond 7.8, lower it to 7.8.

If it rises beyond 7.8 too quickly after I drop it, then I have to knock down my TA more right?

 

[JamesW]

You're getting close to a good TA. Take it slow from here.

If the pH goes over 7.8, only drop the pH a little bit. Maybe to 7.6.

Lowering the pH will lower the TA. You should start seeing good stability soon.

What's your CSI?

 

[bmoreswim]

Thanks guys.

As far as FC using liquid I raise it to 6ppm and that usually will not drop to lower then 2 or 3 after about a week. I target 6 because the CYA is high and the pool is not being used right now.

Adding liquid chlorine is a pain, always have to be careful of what I am wearing that day to not ruin my clothes with a single drop. We are in the same boat with our spa, I want to add a liquid chlorine dosing pump to the spa as well as the pool but have not figured out a method yet. All we have is an in-line Trichlor feeder that I have emptied out and stopped using due to the CYA issues. Why hasent anyone come up with a floating liquid dispenser yet??

Just a note on your FC, separate from your pH discussion (summary - lower TA to 50-60 and pH rise will slow - you may always need to add some acid though)...Your FC is too low for a CYA of 90. At 90, your FC minimum should be 7 with a target of 10-12. At your preferred CYA of 50, your minimum is 4 with a target of 6-8. Below those levels is creating a welcoming environment for algae. Our approach is based largely around the FC/CYA relationship. FC/CYA Chart

I know that isn't the focus of the thread, but I did want to highlight that to keep you from having issues there.

 

[pinkfloydeffect]

You're getting close to a good TA. Take it slow from here.

If the pH goes over 7.8, only drop the pH a little bit. Maybe to 7.6.

Lowering the pH will lower the TA. You should start seeing good stability soon.

What's your CSI?

I waited it out, good so far. The pH seems stable I am at 7.5 right now, even though the TA is registering around 75ppm (we had to add top off water). The CSI is -0.12 -0.12 (balanced)

pH = 7.5
TA = 75
CH = 440
CYA = 80

I have to keep my eye on aeration if pH stability becomes a bad problem...not only does my vac bot climb the walls and gurgle in air at the surface but I also get air in the jets for 1-2min when I turn on my solar heating panels on the roof, I think the roof panels drain when I turn the valve off. There are check valves to keep the water going in one direction and we even went through the trouble of finding metal check valves.

Just a note on your FC, separate from your pH discussion (summary - lower TA to 50-60 and pH rise will slow - you may always need to add some acid though)...Your FC is too low for a CYA of 90. At 90, your FC minimum should be 7 with a target of 10-12. At your preferred CYA of 50, your minimum is 4 with a target of 6-8. Below those levels is creating a welcoming environment for algae. Our approach is based largely around the FC/CYA relationship. FC/CYA Chart

I know that isn't the focus of the thread, but I did want to highlight that to keep you from having issues there.

Yeah I did not realize the FC was not high enough for the CYA @ 6ppm, I was never able to find a calculator for the relationship before. This is good to know, and I was always afraid of the FC being TOO high even when trying to compensate high CYA levels. Will high CYA protect your clothes from getting bleached at "shock levels of FC" ?

Off topic but the CYA to FC relationship was something I planned on doing some more digging into for my spa since I keep getting a dry sun burnt feeling after I dry off. I always shower after using the spa, and it seemed to mostly occur when the pH was 7.8 or higher and sometimes mildly around 7.2 however I seem to be getting the same mild burnt feeling even with a perfect 7.4-7.6 pH and I am looking at the CYA:FC now. I try to keep the CYA between 30 and 50 but sometimes it ends up closer to 60 and has dropped to 25ish without me noticing. I THINK I have made a relation between low CYA and a sweaty back hours after using the spa. Since I use liquid chlorine only and the spa cover only comes off at night I thought the CYA would stay stable at 50ppm for a while but I checked after a few weeks and it was in the 20s.

 

[Dirk]

I have to keep my eye on aeration if pH stability becomes a bad problem...not only does my vac bot climb the walls and gurgle in air at the surface but I also get air in the jets for 1-2min when I turn on my solar heating panels on the roof, I think the roof panels drain when I turn the valve off. There are check valves to keep the water going in one direction and we even went through the trouble of finding metal check valves.

Solar systems should be designed to drain at the end of the heating cycle. It's a function of the three-way valve used to divert water to the panels (there's a little one-way drain that is built into valves specific to solar systems). It protects the panels from freezing, and bursting on a cold night. It also prevents a night-chilled batch of water from pumping into your pool each day. My panels retain water until the pump shuts down for the day, then drain. So they fill once in the morning, and drain once in the evening. Your system likely has a vacuum breaker in it somewhere. Sometimes you can hear them croak while the panels drain. It lets air into the panels so that they can drain. In the morning, that's the air that's being expelled into the pool. I can't imagine that air would add significantly to your pH. It took three sets of sprayers running all day and night to move my pH when I was adjusting my TA...

 

[triptyx]

Great post Dirk. A moment or three of bubbles when you first start the pump, or a little bit of aeration from your bot won't raise pH significantly - you don't really need to worry about either of those events.

 

[Danimal1211]

I'm new to this forum , but you said previously you had a SWG you're not currently using. I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong with either of these points but reactivating your SWG may further exasperated your PH problems. It sounds to me that instead bringing your borate levels up to (whether by boric acid or borox amd MA) 30-50ppm may help stabilize your PH.

 

[bmoreswim]

Borates will slow the pH rise, but you then need greater amounts of MA to bring it down the same amount. So it's a give and take. Getting TA to 50 (but not lower) is the first to try.

And to a question from the OP, It is safe to swim at your SLAM level of FC for your CYA, and also safe for swimsuits. It's not a magic cutoff, but a good reference point not to exceed.

 

[tim5055]

From my understanding, without CYA it would not be possible to compress it into a solid brick form of chlorine[/COLOR]

Basic physics - In it's natural state, chlorine is a gas. Many large commercial pools actually use gas injection systems to chlorinate their pools. Now, to change chlorine into something we can use at home it needs to be bound to something to turn it into a solid. The "somethings" that are commonly used are stabilizer (also known as CYA), calcium, lithium, or --- get this water. All of these add a little salt to your water, but they add something else. Cal-Hypo add calcium, Tri-Chlor and Di-Chlor (tabs and most granules) add stabilizer, Lithium hypochlorite adds lithium and liquid chlorine adds - water.

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I'm new to this forum , but you said previously you had a SWG you're not currently using. I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong with either of these points but reactivating your SWG may further exasperated your PH problems. It sounds to me that instead bringing your borate levels up to (whether by boric acid or borox amd MA) 30-50ppm may help stabilize your PH.

Borates should only be added after a pool has become stable. Adding them too early will make it harder to adjust pH when needed.

 

[pinkfloydeffect]

My CYA finally dropped to 50ppm so I can keep my FC lower....and I can begin using trichlor for maintenance again. However I fight my pH every 5-7 days. I religiously have to add a ton of acid to the pool to drop the TA to 50-60ppm and the pH to about 7.0-7.2 then by the end of the day or the following day it is ready to swim @ 7.3-7.5 but this will not last more than a week before the pH ends up over 8+

Should I try a TA of less than 50 or should I let it be where it wants to settle which is around 80-90ppm? The only thing is if I leave the TA at 80-90ppm I am not sure how to drop the pH without affecting the TA.

What should I try next?

 

[kellyfair]

Are you running a lot of water features? Aeration will raise the PH.

If you start using trichlor, it will likely help keep ph down. Just be warned that it won’t be long until your CYA is too high again.

Not sure about trying to lower TA any further... will let someone else chime in.