Pentair TA60 sand filter MPV and Internals - conversion from 1.5" to 2"??

[ipfhliyl]

@Tiger275 posted earlier about this possibility (TA60 - multiport replacement), and I have just "joined the party". TFP suggested I post a new message instead of tagging onto an older message...

First, @Tiger275, did you make any changes? If so, what?

I've also been strongly considering changing my 1.5" Tagelus MPV out to the 2" version on my TA60D. My goals are the same -- eliminate nearly all 1.5" piping in order to minimize head loss. The 1.5" is only between the pump output, filter, and heater. Exiting the heater and back to the pump inlet is all 2" already. I'm the pool's "stepdad" -- my wife had it installed before we met; I'm only now getting around to changing things since it's approaching its 18th birthday and I want it to be in shape before it heads off to college.

As an aside, I just this year saw the heater manual that calls for a 1" bypass around the heat exchanger, but the PB omitted it. I added it to help maintain pressure on the return line (ultimate goal is to get the pressure at the IFCS (Vanquish) control valve up toward the 20psi recommended minimum from current 11psi -- filter reads about 24psi at full speed -- but that's another post).

Main piping route:

[Notes: "3port" means 3-port Jandy valve. 3port(A) has skimmer and floor drain as inputs, with output to the pump. 3port(B) has SWG as input with output to IFCS and/or fountain water feature.]

Skimmer-->--2"PVC-->--3port(A)-->--
Floor Drain-->--2"PVC-->--3port(A)-->--2"PVC-->--pump-->--1.5"PVC-->--TA60,1.5"MPV->--1.5"PVC-->--heater-->--2"PVC-->--SWG-->--2"PVC-->--3port(B)-->--2"PVC-->--IFCS Valve(6-port)-->--Returns
-->--3port(B)-->--1.5"PVC-->--Pool Fountain :: (will remain 1.5")

Bypass (bypasses heater, SWG, 3port valve):
-->--TA60-->--1.5"PVC-->--1"PVC-->--2"PVC-->--IFCS Valve-->--

If I change the MPV (1A in diagram, below), I've got a second piping assembly (part #155063 - #10 in the diagram, below) that has 1.5"PVC going into a 2"-1.5" bushing inside the "manifold" for the laterals that I could easily ream out and install a 2" pipe, cut it to length (22-5/8" for the TA60 tank - "DIM" in diagram, below) so that the valve and the piping assembly would all be 2". Can't seem to find, though, the dimensions on the 2" MPV to be sure it will fit in the neck of my TA60 tank, and I'm not too keen to risk the shipping/return costs to just give it a try.



Again, my ultimate goal is to maintain proper pressure to the IFCS. Piping distances aren't that bad, I think (equipment pad is within 20'-25' of pool edge), but all the elbows are standard (not long sweep).

Any and all guidance is greatly appreciated -- if it won't help much, I'd rather not spend the $ or time!!!

 

[jblizzle]

Sounds like a lot of effort and expense for what I think will amount to very small impact on the flow rate.

Are you running the Superflo VS at full speed? Honestly, I think that pump is on the small side for operating an in-floor cleaning system.

What does the pressure read at the IFCV if you set the multi-port to recirculate?

 

[ipfhliyl]

The readings were taken at full speed - 3450. The pump is a replacement of the original that seemed to do OK, and the PB says this pump should be able to move more water than the old (don't recall what the old was, but pretty sure it was a single-speed Pentair, 1.5HP). I'll check with the filter on recirc, and I'll run a snake through the pipe from the pump to the IFCV, just in case (although I can't imagine -- maybe don't want to imagine -- what might have gotten in there).

 

[ipfhliyl]

With filter bypassed, IFCV pressure jumped to 16psi, so I deep cleaned the filter ... Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter ... pressure at IFCV with filter running is now 14-15psi. I'll see how the IFC does after a day with the higher readings. Meanwhile, I'm scrapping the project to update the MPV and piping!!!

It was new sand this year (I have since learned better), so I hadn't considered the possibility of a filtering problem. The part of the puzzle I hadn't mentioned previously is that we had a new liner installed this year, but it came with less than half the capacity of water trucked in. Decided to save $1.5k by finishing it with the hose, but our well water is not the best. The filter and BBB got the water cleaned, but as is obvious now, I hadn't backwashed the filter sufficiently. Probably no amount of plain backwashing would have done the job -- thanks TFP community for the lessons on deep cleaning!!!! I plan to do more deep cleaning tonight; time ran short before the water ran completely clear. I doubt it'll make much more difference on pressure; I just want to finish the job...

And hats off to @jblizzle for the tip that lead to my finding the biggest part of the problem and saving me $$$$$ on work that likely wouldn't have made a dent!!! Of course, I still don't like having the 1.5" weak link in the piping (but I do like saving $ and time)...

 

[1poolman1]

With filter bypassed, IFCV pressure jumped to 16psi, so I deep cleaned the filter ... Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter ... pressure at IFCV with filter running is now 14-15psi. I'll see how the IFC does after a day with the higher readings. Meanwhile, I'm scrapping the project to update the MPV and piping!!!

It was new sand this year (I have since learned better), so I hadn't considered the possibility of a filtering problem. The part of the puzzle I hadn't mentioned previously is that we had a new liner installed this year, but it came with less than half the capacity of water trucked in. Decided to save $1.5k by finishing it with the hose, but our well water is not the best. The filter and BBB got the water cleaned, but as is obvious now, I hadn't backwashed the filter sufficiently. Probably no amount of plain backwashing would have done the job -- thanks TFP community for the lessons on deep cleaning!!!! I plan to do more deep cleaning tonight; time ran short before the water ran completely clear. I doubt it'll make much more difference on pressure; I just want to finish the job...

And hats off to @jblizzle for the tip that lead to my finding the biggest part of the problem and saving me $$$$$ on work that likely wouldn't have made a dent!!! Of course, I still don't like having the 1.5" weak link in the piping (but I do like saving $ and time)...

There are 1.5" mip-to-2"spigot (slip) adapters that are available, I use them all the time. You could then run 2" plumbing to the filter, but as has been mentioned, your flow will not increase a large amount as the internal stand-pipe in the filter will still be 1.5." You also need to understand that a Super Flow pump, variable-speed or single speed is a medium-head pump. Your old pump was, likely, a high-head pump. You can find out what that means online, but basically, it means that when if gets harder to pump water (higher head) the medium-head pump won't put out as much water or pressure. When the filter gets dirty the flow decreases and likely won't run your IFCS without a backwash to restore flow.