Pentair or Jandy for pool control system and pump

[CA_geek]

I am trying to figure out whether to go with Pentair or Jandy for replacement/new equipment.

My current main pump is a 1HP Super II pump on a timer.
Then I have a booster pump on a timer for the cleaner.
The pool is a in ground pool with an attached spa/hottub (plaster and tile wall between them, but not a height difference like some pools)
And I have a solar heat system; 6 of 4'x10' panels on the roof.

I had some leaks in the suction line of the pump, so I'm going to re-plumb that and I might as well replace the pump with a variable speed.
And I want to get a better automation system.

So I'm looking for advice on whether to go with Jandy or with Pentair (and which of their systems)

I need to control:
* main pump
* booster pump
* underwater light
* 3 valves
1: suction pool vs hottub
2: Send up to Solar or not
3: return to pool or to hottub

I figure I need temp sensor for roof.
And probably in the suction line after the suction selection valve?
And maybe one on the output after the solar and the heater?

My plan is to have control be mostly via Android phones (both wife and mine)
We're saving to redo the pool and deck next year - I think I would like to have a waterfall and/or slide at the deep end (deck steps up at the deep end and is ~2.5' above waterline at the deep end.) So I would need control (another valve? separate pump?) for that.

If it matters, the other equipment that I'll be continuing to use is a gas furnace and a DE filter.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/advice.

 

[PoolGate]

They are both very similar in functionality. Important thing is to pick a brand and stick with it. I have Jandy and am very happy with it but I have no experience with any other system.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Geek,

Welcome to TFP... A great place to find the answers to all your "Geeky" automation systems...

Automation systems are like cars... Most of them have four wheels and get you from point A to point B and... everyone thinks their brand of car is best, because that is what they have.. But, all the major brands all have pretty comparable models...

The real key to buying an automaton system is to not try and mix and match brands between the automation system, any VS pump, and any salt system... (Speaking of salt, this would be the perfect time to upgrade to a SWCG system...)

Just like cars, automation systems tend to increase in price as the functions increase.. Most pool owners regret going too cheap, and most don't really need the high end systems. In your case, the Pentair EasyTouch would do what you outlined above...

Below is something that I wrote a while back, but it covers the basic functions of the EasyTouch (and most other systems in general..)

Many people have pools without automation and they work just fine. I do, however, think it is important to know the advantages and the disadvantages of having an automation system.

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as booster pumps, spa blowers, landscape lights, etc... (The EasyTouch has 8 (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready. The EasyTouch comes with a built in Solar controller for operating your solar heating panels...

10. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

11. Variable speed pumps... The EasyTouch can be programmed to adjust your pump's speed. So when running just the pool, it can run slow, but when running your waterfall, it will automatically increase the speed to make your waterfall or other water features look exactly how you want them to look.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[CA_geek]

So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost.


OK.

"So CA_geek, how much is it going to cost?"

"Well, CA_geek, I'm not sure yet - probably you'll spend quite a few hours researching which one will work better, and then an afternoon doing the plumbing, and an evening or two on the electrical and programming. It looks like the EasyTouch 8 system with two valve controllers included is $1250; an additional controller will be another $120, the screenlogic kit is $200-$400, and then I'll guesstimate another $200 for sensors, new wires/conduit, etc etc. And that's in addition to the ~$1000 you'll spend on a new pump, new valves, and plumbing fittings even if you don't automate. So $3k, and if you switch to a saltwater chlorinating, looks like you'll want ~$500-$1k more in your budget."

"Well thanks CA_geek - appreciate the guesstimate. That's something my budget can handle this summer."


(my hopefully amusing way of saying that I'm the "pool builder" for this small project. I don't do pool plastering, concrete, or tiles. But I can handle the plumbing and electrical for this)

 

[CA_geek]

Do any of the systems provide for a way to set the valves to an in-between state (either full-on for both ports, or partially covering one of the two)

In the past, my run state has often been with return to both pool and spa wide open.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Geek, (Both of you...)

My guess would be it will cost about $2500 for the IntelliFlo pump and EasyTouch... A little more if you plan to go with salt..

Valves can only be electrically moved from one end to the other... You can mechanically set the end points where you want but you can't have three different electrical positions...

Most automation systems run either the pool or the spa but not both at the same time...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CA_geek]

After looking at Jandy's RS system vs. E asyTouch I'm leaning toward the Jandy/Zodiac system.

The android app reviews are pushing me in that direction.

I've been pricing things out, mostly at sunplay and it looks like I'll pay ~$3600 for Jandy system for pump, automation, ethernet connection, and SWCG.
For a Pentair Easytouch 8 I think it would be about $3300.

Jandy system:

RS-PS6	1100
6614AP-L	740
2 JVA	0
1 JVA 4424	125
IQ20-A	300
PLC1400	600
pump	763
	3628

Pentair system:

EasyTouch 8SC-IC60	$1,800
520500 screenlogic or 52014	$370
valve act. 263045	125
temp sensor	37
pump (2HP VS	1000
	$3,332

 

[PoolGate]

After looking at Jandy's RS system vs. E asyTouch I'm leaning toward the Jandy/Zodiac system.

The android app reviews are pushing me in that direction.

I've been pricing things out, mostly at sunplay and it looks like I'll pay ~$3600 for Jandy system for pump, automation, ethernet connection, and SWCG.
For a Pentair Easytouch 8 I think it would be about $3300.

Jandy system:

RS-PS6	1100
6614AP-L	740
2 JVA	0
1 JVA 4424	125
IQ20-A	300
PLC1400	600
pump	763
	3628

Pentair system:

EasyTouch 8SC-IC60	$1,800
520500 screenlogic or 52014	$370
valve act. 263045	125
temp sensor	37
pump (2HP VS	1000
	$3,332

You don't want the IQ20-A it is useless (not sure why they even sell it). You need the IQ20-RS. Check on this though because the bundled system usually includes all of this.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Geek,

Not that it is any real money, but the $1800 ET comes with two actuators and two temp sensors...

I'm sure that you would be happy with either Jandy or Pentair...

Depending on the product, I don't generally rely on Internet reviews... You don't get both sides of the story, and most times the story you do get is caused by user errors...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CA_geek]

You don't want the IQ20-A it is useless (not sure why they even sell it). You need the IQ20-RS. Check on this though because the bundled system usually includes all of this.

The bundle I found was "IQ904-PS". But that's only 4 relays, and I'd like the option to expand. And it doesn't include the SWCG, so I was a little concerned about whether that can be added on to it easily. Re-reading the description, I think it does support it, so probably I just would have to get an additional box for the SWCG.

 

[PoolGate]

The bundle I found was "IQ904-PS". But that's only 4 relays, and I'd like the option to expand. And it doesn't include the SWCG, so I was a little concerned about whether that can be added on to it easily. Re-reading the description, I think it does support it, so probably I just would have to get an additional box for the SWCG.

Check out this link and call Jandy if you have questions about what to get. You definitely want a base box that includes the SWCG power supply and controls.

https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sa/sa6465.pdf

 

[Dirk]

The android app reviews are pushing me in that direction.

If I may? I'm all Pentair and have zero Jandy experience. (My disclaimer.)

I'm just pointing out that after many long-awaited years, Pentair has finally upgraded the ScreenLogic app. And brought both iPhone and iPad apps into parity. It is a huge improvement, and it took place just a week or two ago. So if you're weighting your decision heavily, or primarily, on app reviews, you need to make sure you're not comparing the Jandy offering with the now-defunct Pentair app. The new Pentair app is really quite good and addresses most of the complaints I ever had about the old version.

I'm on Apple, so I can't speak to Pentair's Android offerings. That'd be something else for you to check on...

While I'm here...

I figure I need temp sensor for roof.
And probably in the suction line after the suction selection valve?
And maybe one on the output after the solar and the heater?

Again, I'm just Pentair...

There are three connectors for temperature, but only two are used for solar. The third is just air temperature (which I actually use a lot).

For solar, there's a temp sensor punched through one of your pipes on the pad, before the water goes to the panels. The controller uses this for "current pool water temp." The second is on the roof, simulating the temperature of the panels (not the water in the panels, the actual panels themselves). The controller compares the two temps and fires up the solar heating accordingly. It doesn't need water temp coming out of the panels.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Geek,

One of the good things about Pentair is that, for the most part, are buying one complete unit... You never have to worry about F/W or card revisions, because almost everything new works with all the old stuff... I use the Android app and have for several years... I have never had a problem.

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

Geek,

One of the good things about Pentair is that, for the most part, are buying one complete unit... You never have to worry about F/W or card revisions, because almost everything new works with all the old stuff... I use the Android app and have for several years... I have never had a problem.

Jim R.

Jim, was the Android app recently upgraded as the Apple apps were?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jim, was the Android app recently upgraded as the Apple apps were?

If I remember right it was in November...

But keep in mind that I do all my programming via my PC not my phone... I usually only use my tablet or phone when trying to answer someone's questions...

Turning things on/off using a tablet or phone makes perfect sense to me.. But programming is about 10 x easier on the PC, than on a phone, just based upon screen size and format..

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

If I remember right it was in November...

But keep in mind that I do all my programming via my PC not my phone... I usually only use my tablet or phone when trying to answer someone's questions...

Turning things on/off using a tablet or phone makes perfect sense to me.. But programming is about 10 x easier on the PC, than on a phone, just based upon screen size and format..

Jim R.

Right. Me, too. iPhone for on-off. Computer for programming. One of the coolest additions to the app (at least on the iOS app), is the new widget that displays pool temp and pump and swg status at a glance, without even launching the app. Pool temp is mostly what I use the app for, while out and about, so this upgrade made the app infinitely more useful and convenient for me.

I just wanted to make sure the OP was comparing apples to apples. That the decision wasn't based on comparing reviews of the current Jandy app to the reviews of the old Pentair app...

 

[Jimrahbe]

Right. Me, too. iPhone for on-off. Computer for programming. One of the coolest additions to the app (at least on the iOS app), is the new widget that displays pool temp and pump and swg status at a glance, without even launching the app. Pool temp is mostly what I use the app for, while out and about, so this upgrade made the app infinitely more useful and convenient for me.

I just wanted to make sure the OP was comparing apples to apples. That the decision wasn't based on comparing reviews of the current Jandy app to the reviews of the old Pentair app...

Dirk,

I don't see that option for Android, but I did not look too hard.. Did it just happen automatically for you, or did you have to enable it somehow???

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

On iOS, a widget comes with its app, and is made available to the operating system somehow. You don’t turn it on inside the app, but rather use a built in tool of the OS, which lists all available widgets from any app that supplies them, to turn on the widget and then move it into position on the widget screen. I couldn’t tell you if there is a counter part for any of that within the Android version of the ScreenLogic app or the Android OS...

 

[CA_geek]

It is a huge improvement, and it took place just a week or two ago.

That does make a difference - the reviews are older.

... now-defunct Pentair app. The new Pentair app is really quite good and addresses most of the complaints I ever had about the old version.

Is it a new app? or just a new version?

I see in a review from 3 days ago:
"After using the app for a few days, I found that the apple version (wifes phone) is much better. Apple version allows monitoring of actual pump status and allows one to compare actual status with programmed standard. "

I'm not thrilled with that - I have multiple android devices (a kindle, current phone, and an older phone) - I don't have an ipad or iphone.

The third is just air temperature (which I actually use a lot).

So even if it comes with 2 sensors, I'll likely want to spend the $37 on a 3rd one.

For solar, there's a temp sensor punched through one of your pipes on the pad, before the water goes to the panels.

With my previous system that sensor was on the suction side.
And I think it contributed to some of my air leaks on the suction side.
Is it often put on the pressure side of the pump?
After chasing around suction side leaks I would rather have things like that on the pressure side. Easy to tell when there is a small leak where it is, and then deal with it.

Since I'd always have the pump running when it might switch to solar, I think it'd be OK for it to be on the pressure side. But I'd rather have someone else say that's how they have it (and/or how they've done it / seen it on multiple pools)

 

[CA_geek]

So re-evaluating options, it looks like the cheaper option would be intellitouch?
I might be able to go even cheaper with an ET4, but I think I want space for future features...
I'm now leaning toward the ET8 at the moment, even though the intellitouch would be a bit cheaper...

The pentair pumps are also quite an array of choices...
Do I go with 342001 for $650 or 343001 for $660 or 011060 for $1000 or 011018 for $930.
(I *think* I want a VS pump to replace the 1HP single speed I've had. And I could go up a little in HP without problems with the filter. All of them seem to be pretty quiet - which I want - don't want to bother the neighbors.)

Pentair Easytouch
EasyTouch 8SC-IC60	$1,800
520500 screenlogic or 52014	$370
valve act. 263045	125
temp sensor	37
pump (2HP VS	1000
3 of 3port	159
	$3,491
Pentair Intellitouch
Intellitouch 51215	610
i5 +3 (521219)	600
520500 screenlogic or 52014	$370
valve act. 263045 (3 of)	375
temp sensor	37
pump (2HP VS	1000
3 of 3port	159
	3151
Jandy (RS-PS8-ish, using IQ20-RS)
IQ20-RS	600
6614AP-L	740
2 JVA	250
1 JVA 4424	125
PLC1400	600
pump VSSHP270	970
temp sensor*3	150
3 of 3-port	150
	$3,585.00