Pentair Intelliflo VS versus Pentair Superflow dual speed

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PhilTX

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Aug 12, 2017
32
Leander, TX
I'm getting ready to rebuild my pool pad and am looking at replacing my 1.5hp Hayward 3207EE Tristar pump with something a bit more modern. I run a pool/spa combo where the spa is spilling over into the pool, or only the spa itself is running.

At the same time I am adding an SWG and planning on adding an IntelliPH system as well (along with the much discussed IntelliCenter controller)

In looking at the pump options, I've convinced myself that the Pentair pumps may serve me better given my location (central Texas).

This has me at a bit of a quandary.

Do I use the dual-speed Superflo since it matches my Hayward HP (1.5), or do I use the Intelliflo VS because I can run it at lower speeds depending on my needs?

My single concern at this point is that the pressure from the Intelliflo at full speed could burst pipes. I have Lasco Schedule 40 2" PVC for everything on the pad (and it looks like the same for the pipes coming up from the ground into the pad).

Just looking to be smart about my rebuild, I don't want to overbuild too much, but I don't want to underbuild it either.

Can some of the wise sages here guide me? I'm not terribly concerned about the cost - I just want to do it right for my setup.

Thanks for any advice offered.
 
For a variable speed pump, the first thing you should do is set the maximum speed to a safe limit.

If you have automation, you typically want a compatible variable speed pump (same manufacturer).

Aqualogic is probably too old to work with variable speed depending on the software revision number.

You can do control from the pump controller.

Do you have a swg?
 
Phil,

If you plan to install the IntelliCenter, then the only real choice is the IntelliFlo.

As James points out, you can limit the high speed, but it is not going to "Burst" the pipes.

Even if you don't limit the speed, the only time the pump will be running at full speed would when it primes, which is not all that long.

The EasyTouch, and now the IntelliCenter, are made to control the IntelliFlo pump. With a SWCG, you will be running most of the time at 1200 to 1600 RPM..

In my case, at 1200 RPM, my filter pressure is about 2 lbs.. Not what you call pipe bursting pressure... :p

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Phil,

As James points out, you can limit the high speed, but it is not going to "Burst" the pipes.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I looked up the Intelliflo VS. It shows a maximum of ~90 Head IN FT at 3450 RPM. Using a table I found here: Converting Pump Head to Pressure and Vice Versa, that table says I will hit a max of 40 PSI, which is well below the max rating of the PVC (166 PSI).

This made my decision VERY easy. Thank you!!!
 
Are you DIYing this? If not, how's your filter holding up? If you buy enough Pentair gear all at once, and have it professionally installed, you get a 3-year extended warranty on everything, which is coming in quite handy for me (third warranty replacement in a year coming up). I believe a filter has to be one of the items, but my contractor negotiated the three-year warranty for me without me buying a filter. Just something to be aware of...

Warranty - Pool and Spa Product Registration & Warranty - Pentair

Either way, you'll be very happy with a VS pump. And I'll be very envious if you end up with the new IntelliCenter! ;)
 
I was planning on DIY as I have no issues doing PVC or electrical. I currently have a sand filter that seems to do just fine.

Reading the link you provided they want you to do filter+pump+panel to give you the longer warranty.

However I've done enough reading about sand vs. cartridge, and given I'm in a high pollen area (TONS of Cedar, Live Oak) a cartridge might not be a bad idea - it's food for thought at least.

I just checked my dealers in the area - I have a choice of Leslie's or Blue Bottom Pool - both of which love trying to sell me chemicals I don't need. Do I need to worry about them trying to sell me junk I don't want/need?
 
Do I need to worry about them trying to sell me junk I don't want/need?
Click to expand...

Always. Just nod your head during their pitch, and say, "Oh, I gotta check with the boss before I spend any more money." Wink, wink.
 
Ok, I've got people from two different local pool companies coming out within the next week to give me a quote on overhauling my pad. I greatly appreciate all the help.

FYI, here's my pad currently, will post an update, especially if I get the Intellicenter:

pool pump and filter flow.jpg
 
I considered upgrading the firmware however being the tech person I am - I'm not willing to mess with a board this old. Too many other bad experiences.

On a side note, is it just me, or do others get absolutely giddy at the concept of a new pool panel/pump/filter upgrade? My first quote should be arriving today and it's almost like waiting for Christmas morning, except a whole lot more expensive.
 

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PhilTX said:
On a side note, is it just me, or do others get absolutely giddy at the concept of a new pool panel/pump/filter upgrade?
Click to expand...

Giddy? You mean like starting a thread about what they're thinking about buying? Then another thread for its installation after it arrives, with pictures and drawings and lots of questions and comments? Then more posts about how life with it is like? And how it works? And how much they like having it? And what color they painted it? And how they put shade over it? And then they post incessantly in others' threads about what they have and how cool it is to have and that everyone should have the same stuff? You mean like that?

I'm sure I don't know anything about such a person... ;)
 
Ok, just had a brief conversation with another Pentair installer that will be coming to give a quote. They are recommending the Intelliflo VSF over the VS. Having done a bit of reading on this, I'm thinking I'd be fine with the VS as I fall into the category of "tinkerer".

I have no problems playing the fine tune game with speeds on the VS. Also, it seems like overkill if you know what you're doing.

I don't think I want my pool pump making decisions about flow.

Am I wrong in thinking this?
 
Phil,

When there were VS pumps and VF pumps we always recommended going with the VS pump. Now you can get VS and VF in the same pump. That would be great if they were the same price but spending several hundred dollars more for something you don't need, and more than likely won't use, does not make sense to me.

You will be plenty happy with the older VS pump. The only downside is that the control head does not rotate and is often installed upside down to what makes the most sense..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I don't think I want my pool pump making decisions about flow.

Am I wrong in thinking this?
Click to expand...

Not to me! I set and monitor my own pump flow, thank you very much. I have a need to keep track, for my solar heater. I use a FlowVis for that purpose. I would never use the "F" of a VSF.
 
Ok, so I got my first quote back. I was saddened to find out I could not get an i3 sized control panel for the Intellicenter, only an i5 sized panel (given I want to eliminate my booster pump, I've only got 3 "real" things to control - an SWG, The filter pump, and occasionally the air pump/blower for the spa, would an intelliPH go towards the device count?). That drove up the cost significantly.

Secondly, this particular Pentair licensed installer says he cannot get an Intelliflo VS from any of his distributors, only the VSF, which adds ~$300 to the cost. He's also trying to tell me that he can only get a panel that comes with 2 IntelliValves when I can clearly see that I can get a panel+SWG without them (I had to replace both my Jandy valves that died over the winter - so they are new). There are 6 other valves to replace my aging ball-valves for shutoffs to the pool. Entirely unsure about the sizing of the Pentair Clean and Clear 420. I'm assuming the size of the filter is part returns/filters (currently 4 returns, 2 floor filter drains, 2 skimmers in pool, plus 8+1 floor returns in spa with two filter drains in spa) and part how often I want to clean the cartridges.

Am I overlooking anything obvious?

poolquote1.JPG
 
Some of those Pentair part costs seemed marked up pretty good to me. But that is kinda the industry norm, it seems. Labor seems reasonable, probably because his profit is in the markup. Not begrudging him that, just sayin'. If he can't get the parts you want, would he install them if you supplied the parts? You'd have to check with Pentair, but I believe they grant the better warranty based on who installs, not who sells you the parts. (Not sure about that.)

I put in my IntellipH myself for less than five hundred. I'm very handy, and very comfortable with PVC assembly, but it was on the low end in terms of skill level. There is no wiring to do. It plugs into the ET/IntelliCenter, where the SWG would normally. Then the SWG plugs into the IntellipH. No electrician required for that part of the install.

I don't know anything about the IntelliCenter yet, but that's almost twice what a similar ET bundle would be. I don't know what more an IntelliCenter could do for me than an ET 8 could. I suppose if I had a lot of water features and yard things to control. Or had a whole lot of scheduling to do. I think the IC has a built in ScreenLogic type control, or other computer/phone interface goodies. So that's something (and a few bills you don't have to pay for ScreenLogic). I think you might need to look at ET vs IC some more, unless money is no object.

I believe filters are sized to the water volume, but many here suggest going big. The bigger the filter, the less you clean it. I have the 320 for a 12K pool, and it is fine, but I have a very "clean" pool, no great amount of leaves and debris get into it. I'm on track right now for once-a-year cleaning, and even if I had a bigger filter I wouldn't go longer than that. If that's any help by way of comparison. I've heard some here say the bigger the filter canister the harder they are to clean, so I suppose big is better, buy maybe not too big.
 
For comparison's sake I'm trying to part out an IntelliTouch (which appears to be the "prior" model EasyTouch -> IntelliTouch -> IntelliCenter?). I'm a bit confused. I need to get the base chassis (called the "load center"?), + a panel + IC40 SWG (leaving the valves and actuators out of this for the moment)?

Amazon.com : Pentair 521213 Intellitouch Load Center for Pool with IntelliChlor Transformer : Garden Outdoor
Amazon.com: Pentair 521219 IntelliTouch i5+3 Automation Personality Kit, Shared Equipment, Filter + 4 Auxiliaries, No Relays: Garden Outdoor

But I'm seeing "no relays" in the i5 description. Does this mean I need to buy the relays to run my pool filter pump, heater and spa blower? (Amazon.com: Pentair 520106 Relay Assembly Replacement Pool and Spa Control Systems, 3 HP: Garden Outdoor)

The actuator stuff I understand. I'd also want to add the Screenlogic setup so I have mobile access to my stuff, I understand this also.

I think I also need to add some sort of in house panel like such, yes? Amazon.com : Pentair 520138 Intellitouch Indoor Control Panel, White : Swimming Pool Pump Accessories : Garden Outdoor

Just making sure I'm doing an apples to apples comparison on the controller setup before I check everything else.

And I thought ordering from my current employer was nuts!
 
I can't help with just about all of that. My experience is limited to my setup, for the most part. I now know what my installer marked up, for example. And I now know what I should have purchased instead. So I applaud your pre-sales research. I trusted my installer to give me what I needed, but he never interviewed me about what that might be, he just decided. And that was my fault.

Others here make fun of my indoor controller, siting ScreenLogic as its replacement, relegating the indoor controllers to the scrap heap! Revolt I say!! I love my indoor controller.

And to be clear (if I have it clear, that is), you understand you don't need SL with the IntelliCenter? So when comparing, you add SL to the ET price, but not the IC price. You're gunna need a spreadsheet!!

Anyway, my indoor controller is hardwired and mounted to the wall, next to my HVAC thermostat. I didn't want one of their wireless options. I walk by it constantly, and check indoor and outdoor and pool temp at a glance. I can initiate several of my pool's modes (filter, cleaner, skimmer and light) and get visual feedback from across the room which is on (LED light). The display and controls duplicate exactly the display and controls of the ET outside, so I don't have to use the controls at the pad much. And for the things I do most often (check temp, adjust the heater mode, fire up the cleaner, etc) I can do those with a push of a button. I don't carry my phone in the house, and opening a laptop and waiting for the software to load is not quick. I find the indoor controller fast and handy, and indispensable. Not instead of ScreenLogic, for sure, but as its speedy little companion. If I had to pick one, it'd be SL, but I didn't have to, so both work great for me! I'd buy it again.
 
 
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