Paramount PCC 2000 availability and strengths

[troublefreefun]

I am at the absolute infancy of the process of a new in-ground build. I intend to get a pool design and engineering completed by a non-builder but figured I would give a PB a chance without everything specified out to see if they are complete, fair and trustworthy.

During our very first meeting the PB sales person made a big deal that they are a Paramount PCC 2000 dealer in the state (Arizona) which is very rare and highly coveted..... Immediately I started being a bit skeptical of him and his trustworthiness. He spent more time talking about how it is the best, patented, proprietary, etc and the entire time I was thinking "margins, margins, margins".

Is being a Paramount PCC 2000 dealer rare and coveted?
Just as important how does the PCC 2000 system stack up in general against the competing products (whether or not patented, proprietary, expensive, high profit margins, etc. )

 

[TinFoilHat]

I think you are smelling this one out for what it is. In the short time I've been on this forum I haven't seen the Paramount name mentioned. They are local to us here on Buckeye Rd but I'll bet they aren't mainstream. There are tons of experts here and it won't be long until you find out how mainstream they might be.

 

[ajw22]

PCC 2000 is an In Floor Cleaning System (IFCS). For most pools they are overly complex and unnecessary. They don't clean your pool as well as a robot pool cleaner.

@proavia is in your area and helps many members with them.

There are many ways an IFCS can be installed. You don't want an IFCS that cannot be turned off. You do want regular skimmers and returns and the ability to switch between the IFCS and standard skimming/returns.

Let's see what folks with IFCS systems have to say about theirs.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I would tend to agree with that assessment. While I have had good luck with our IFCS there are a couple of dead spots and one spot in particular where another head should have been installed. While I enjoy having the IFCS I have always been disappointed that I fell for the ruse that because of it I wouldn't need a suction skimmer. I have a QuickSkim venturi skimmer that only skims, nothing else. I really miss the ability to at least hook up a hose so I could manually vacuum the pool. So from my experience, I would opt for the IFCS again but insist on a real skimmer that would accept a hose connection.

 

[proavia]

There are only maybe 3 or 4 manufacturers of IFCS that I am aware of.
Paramount, A&A Manufacturing (now part of Pentair) and Blue Square are probably the ones we see most often.

Of the three, I think the A&A system is the more simple of the group - but I could be biased as that's the one I have.
They have a great warranty to the original pool owner.
They actually design the IFCS - instead of the pool builder. Not sure what the other IFCS manufacturers do.
I've had good fortune with my system - no dead spots.

The PB saying what they said is part of the sales pitch and a big profit maker for them.
Very rare and highly coveted may be a stretch - but not every builder may be authorized to install one of the above listed IFCS manufacturers products.

No matter the IFCS, you still want separate returns run to the pool. This provides the ability to turn the IFCS on or off.
I would also suggest a GFCI protected electrical outlet about mid way along the length of the pool - and at least the minimum distance required by code from the water's edge - for a possible future robot. You may also want a suction side manual vacuum/pool cleaner line installed. This will provide several options for dleaning over the life of the pool.

I'd opt for a venturi skimmer as it uses return flow to help with skimming. And having the separate vac/cleaner line will alleviate needing to plug a vac/cleaner into the skimmer. This allows skimming while the vac/cleaner is being used.

Remember, an IFCS requires a high pump RPM to work well - and uses more electricity in the process. I run at 2900 rpm to get adequate cleaning with my IFCS. Mine runs 2 hours twice daily at 2900 rpm for IFCS and the other 20 hours at 1200 rpm for continuous skimming and SWG chlorine production. I run 24/7 by choice, but that doesn't mean you need to.

Some like the low voltage electric robots. But there have been reports of reliability and longevity.

Not sure what the best answer is for pool cleaners. But for now, my IFCS (with it's 1990's technology) works for me.
Would I do it again in 2024 - probably not.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Our heads are from A&A and I didn't know they designed their systems for the pool builders. If so back in 2002 then they blew it by missing a spot I should have a head in. I run 12 hours per day during the entire year all during off peak times. 4 hours at high speed and 8 hours of low speed. My electric bill dropped simply from putting in our VSP.

 

[troublefreefun]

Thank you all for the responses. As expected, it is a sales-pitch and likely high margin item which is why they spent so much breath talking about it. It also sounds like a potential issue if the pool isn't designed properly to allow it to be turned off and use other methods of cleaning.

It sounds as if IFCS can be great, if designed correctly, but it also sounds as though it is a bit of an investment upfront that may not even clean correctly whereas a replaceable 120V robot vacuum can do just as good, if not a better job, although the robot requires manual labor to get it into the pool, out of the pool, etc and the robot will need to be replaced (although IFCS heads will need to be replaced periodically as well).

 

[TinFoilHat]

I've been lucky with my A&A popups. My pool is 22 years old and over the first 4-5 years I ended up replacing about 3/4 of my popups under warranty because the nibs around the top edge of the head that lock them into the socket would break and jam the heads. Once those heads were replaced I haven't had to replace any others - knock on wood. It's pretty amazing actually and I'm glad since the heads are $100+ now and no longer supplied under the lifetime parts warranty that I have. As an aside, it does take about 6 weeks for a warranty call now and 2 more weeks if the part isn't in stock on the day of the service call. I swear they are testing me with my lifetime warranty to see if I give it up. I will call someone else though if I need something I can't do and I need it fixed right away