ORP 580 and FC 4.2 and TC 4.3 help

[Lamby2244]

Hey I have a zodiac salt water chlorinator and I am wanting to use my pool but am struggling to get everything in check. I have tested using my palin test kit.

Fc 4.2
Fc 4.3
Ph 7.2 and same on my zodiac sensor
TA 120
CYA 2
ORP 580

So I am in a bit of a spiral as my system at 580 keeps on producing chlorine as the lowest set point is 600…

However when I test the water chlorine seems a little high.

I calibrated the sensor and the replaced the sensor and same reading.

Can you help? I am so basic at all of this….

Cheer

 

[ajw22]

ORP based controls do not work with CYA in the water.

We do not recommend the use of ORP controllers.

There is no need for tight control of FC with a SWG system. Using % generation and run time can adequately control SWG generation.

Read the many threads on ORP...

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Lamby2244]

ORP based controls do not work with CYA in the water.

We do not recommend the use of ORP controllers.

There is no need for tight control of FC or a SWG system. Using % generation and run time can adequately control SWG generation.

Read the many threads on ORP...

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com

Sorry my thumbs mistyped- CYA is actually 2.

 

[ajw22]

Sorry my thumbs mistyped- CYA is actually 2.

How do you measure CYA 2?

 

[Lamby2244]

How do you measure CYA 2?

Using a palintest photometer!

 

[ajw22]

And thus you will discover why we do not recommend the use of ORP or photometers.

 

[Lamby2244]

And thus you will discover why we do not recommend the use of ORP or photometers.

Well it shows up as under 10 on my strip too. So what do you recommend? Are you usually this direct?

The numbers all show the same whatever test I do. The system has been working like a dream for nearly 3 years and this has just happened.

 

[ajw22]

So what do you recommend?

It depends if your interest is in a science experiment or maintaining a trouble-free pool.

Are you usually this direct?

I am trying to be kind.

We cannot tell you how to make something work that does not work well. Many before you have tried, and most have given up.

 

[Lamby2244]

It depends if your interest is in a science experiment or maintaining a trouble-free pool.


I am trying to be kind.

We cannot tell you how to make something work that does not work well. Many before you have tried, and most have given up.

Ha ok - then let loose - what can I go find out and what’s the best way? I am genuinely interested in learning

 

[ajw22]

Your pool an outdoor pool?

Disconnect the SWG from the ORP. With an SWG system, there is no need for tight FC control. Using % generation and run time can adequately control SWG generation.

We are not fans of photometer test systems, but they may be the best you can get in the UK. Understand your system's limitations, and don't put too much faith in its digital presentation. A CYA of 2 is equivalent to 0.

 

[PoolStored]

For a proper test kit, this is currently your best bet - Amazon.co.uk - You can buy refills for the main tests you'll use up from Amazon.com.

 

[Lamby2244]

For a proper test kit, this is currently your best bet - Amazon.co.uk - You can buy refills for the main tests you'll use up from Amazon.com.

Great I will order one of those now.

 

[Lamby2244]

Your pool an outdoor pool?

Disconnect the SWG from the ORP. With an SWG system, there is no need for tight FC control. Using % generation and run time can adequately control SWG generation.

We are not fans of photometer test systems, but they may be the best you can get in the UK. Understand your system's limitations, and don't put too much faith in its digital presentation. A CYA of 2 is equivalent to 0.

I have an outdoor pool.

 

[ajw22]

I have an outdoor pool.

Then when you give up on your ORP follow TFP recommendations...

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

You using PoolMath?

 

[Lamby2244]

Your pool an outdoor pool?

Disconnect the SWG from the ORP. With an SWG system, there is no need for tight FC control. Using % generation and run time can adequately control SWG generation.

We are not fans of photometer test systems, but they may be the best you can get in the UK. Understand your system's limitations, and don't put too much faith in its digital presentation. A CYA of 2 is equivalent to 0.

Thank you for this. It seems my distrust of the digital representation of my SWG was well founded and having done some research here I can see why ORP readings can be chased but are often not giving you the true picture. All good there.

Now where I am more interested is in the space of the photometer because palintest as an example is a professional grade product which seems to me to give very accurate results - it definitely aligns with the test strip I put in and the Taylor kit that I now own. If anything it seems more accurate…. Can you help me here? I am genuinely interested.

Oh and I found the issue - I realised I was needing to do my algae protection top up as I noticed the water had a very slight tinge to it. After that I look this am and the system is back in balance.

 

[AUSpool]

Oh and I found the issue - I realised I was needing to do my algae protection top up as I noticed the water had a very slight tinge to it. After that I look this am and the system is back in balance.

I’m hesitant to ask but what did you use for algae protection? Chlorine is the best algae protection you can get. I’ve never used any algacides in 15 years, I’ve just maintained my FC/CyA ratio.

Now where I am more interested is in the space of the photometer because palintest as an example is a professional grade product which seems to me to give very accurate results - it definitely aligns with the test strip I put in and the Taylor kit that I now own. If anything it seems more accurate…. Can you help me here? I am genuinely interested.

There is a bit of history with erratic results from both home use and LPS photometers. Over estimation of accuracy and inconstancies of multiple results from the same sample to just poor results possibly from incorrect use of the meters. When offering advice to a broad audience it’s just better to base that advice on the standard drop test results. Particularly those from the titration tests that have a definite or definitive end point. Colourmetric tests can be quite objective.

The Palintest photometer is certainly one of the better ones. I’ve used a bunch of different meters from lab meters to the ColourQ and PhotoLab and the principle is the same but there are vast differences in quality. They start with similar chemistry to the titration tests but are adapted to a colourmetric endpoint. The cheap tests use a color chart to select the result while the photometers add an extra layer of assessment by including a light source, detection sensors and computer modeling to provide a best match. This adds more potential for error. Things like how the meter is used, change over time to the light source, wear on the cuvettes affecting light transmission, calibration etc.

 

[Lamby2244]

I’m hesitant to ask but what did you use for algae protection? Chlorine is the best algae protection you can get. I’ve never used any algacides in 15 years, I’ve just maintained my FC/CyA ratio.



There is a bit of history with erratic results from both home use and LPS photometers. Over estimation of accuracy and inconstancies of multiple results from the same sample to just poor results possibly from incorrect use of the meters. When offering advice to a broad audience it’s just better to base that advice on the standard drop test results. Particularly those from the titration tests that have a definite or definitive end point. Colourmetric tests can be quite objective.

The Palintest photometer is certainly one of the better ones. I’ve used a bunch of different meters from lab meters to the ColourQ and PhotoLab and the principle is the same but there are vast differences in quality. They start with similar chemistry to the titration tests but are adapted to a colourmetric endpoint. The cheap tests use a color chart to select the result while the photometers add an extra layer of assessment by including a light source, detection sensors and computer modeling to provide a best match. This adds more potential for error. Things like how the meter is used, change over time to the light source, wear on the cuvettes affecting light transmission, calibration etc.

I shocked the pool - I haven’t used it through the winter so that seemed to work and because it’s very sunny here the chlorine levels dropped back to normal quickly.

 

[Lamby2244]

The Palintest photometer is certainly one of the better ones. I’ve used a bunch of different meters from lab meters to the ColourQ and PhotoLab and the principle is the same but there are vast differences in quality. They start with similar chemistry to the titration tests but are adapted to a colourmetric endpoint. The cheap tests use a color chart to select the result while the photometers add an extra layer of assessment by including a light source, detection sensors and computer modeling to provide a best match. This adds more potential for error. Things like how the meter is used, change over time to the light source, wear on the cuvettes affecting light transmission, calibration etc.

Ok this makes much more sense than me dismissing it out of hand. I make sure the device is clean, batteries are charged fully, that the reagent tablets are well kept dry and in a stable environment and don’t get old….

The plaintest is led lightsource so there shouldn’t be an issue there either.

I get the idea that the liquid tests are better objectively although I am guessing the colours of the transfer on the test tubes fade over time too?

 

[Lake Placid]

Ok this makes much more sense than me dismissing it out of hand. I make sure the device is clean, batteries are charged fully, that the reagent tablets are well kept dry and in a stable environment and don’t get old….

The plaintest is led lightsource so there shouldn’t be an issue there either.

I get the idea that the liquid tests are better objectively although I am guessing the colours of the transfer on the test tubes fade over time too?

Endpoint titration testing is the gold standard and will yield the best results. Palintest (depending on the model) are solid machines but they need maintenance, can fall out of calibration and in a perfect world you back it up with an FAS-DPD titration kit.

Do you have check standards for your palintest? If not get some if you want to use it. The standards will allow you to verify if it’s fallen out of calibration. Clean you tubes well with alcohol and if they are scratched etc, replace them. You can send your Palintest in for verification of accuracy and it can be adjusted/recalibrated. It costs some $$ but worth it if you’re in doubt of the kits accuracy.

As for your ORP reading being off, if the probes have been cleaned and you’ve tried new probes, I’d raise the set point of PH up to 7.5. In theory this should allow for an ORP in the mid 700’s with a relative FC reading in the 3’s. As the water warms your ORP readings will likely shift as well. You can run a CYA up to around 30 without terrible interference with the probes.

This chart may help you with a relative understanding of where your ORP should land relative to FC at a given PH. Due to the many variables involved, this chart will get you in the ballpark but will never be perfect. You should always rely on a known good test kit and calibrate/set your probes/system to those readings. Frequent testing and calibration to the test kit is key.

 

[Lake Placid]

that the reagent tablets are well kept dry and in a stable environment and don’t get old

What are the age of the reagents? Are they discolored or have any brown speckles on them? That’s indicative of them going bad…..they can and will go bad in the foil bubble packs. I’ve seen it too often.