Ok Experts anything wrong with this Plumbing job?

[mihzyd777]

I thought that the XF was for the fountains?

Sorry my bad I thought you were asking about the VSF pump on far left for some reason. The VSF XF pump on right will be used for the 3 waterfalls I mentioned. If I were to guess I would say to run all 3 falls at the same time, I'd follow the standard 1gpm per 1" of waterfall and between the 3 falls there is 168" inches so around 168gpm +/- 5gpm.

 

[JamesW]

The VSF XF pump on right will be used for the 3 waterfalls I mentioned. If I were to get I would say to run all I'd follow the standard 1gpm per 1" of waterfall and between the 3 falls there is 168" inches so around 168gpm +/- 5gpm.

For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.

1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm
4”...........234.............313 gpm

For 168 gpm, the suction pipe should be 4" and the discharge should be 3" until it splits.

3" pipe will work for 168 gpm. The velocity will be 7.39 ft/sec and the head loss assuming 100 ft of 3" pipe is about 6.5 feet.

I would make it 3" into the pump suction without reducing down to 2.5".

Coming out of the pump I would go 3" until you T off to the individual lines.

 

[mihzyd777]

For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.

1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm
4”...........234.............313 gpm

For 168 gpm, the suction pipe should be 4" and the discharge should be 3" until it splits.

3" pipe will work for 168 gpm. The velocity will be 7.39 ft/sec and the head loss assuming 100 ft of 3" pipe is about 6.5 feet.

I would make it 3" into the pump suction without reducing down to 2.5".

Coming out of the pump I would go 3" until you T off to the individual lines.

Beautiful explanation! Thank you for sharing all that info....this is exactly what I was looking for and what I know to be true as well in Fluid Dynamics......so it's good to see that I'm not going crazy lol. So can you confirm if the XF pump does all 3" connections? I can't really find that anywhere but is a reason why I ordered it lol.
On that note the piping is already done. I did try to stay on top of all this while building but was just to busy and it moved so fast at the beginning. So I'm stuck with 3" suction side pipe from the pool is only about a 25' ft. run. Then I have a separate return each of the waterfalls, the larger 2.5" pipe will feed a 96" sheer rain and that run is about 45'-50'ft max , and then each of the 2 smaller 36" waterfalls are fed by their own 2" pipe and one run is about 25'ft and the other about 35' ft.
Do you think this will be ok? I really don't have a choice at this point, but want to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

 

[mihzyd777]

The unions that come with the pump will take 2.5" pipe to the inside and a 3" coupling to the outside of the union.

I don't know how I missed that but glad I went back and reread it. Ok so that was my next question, the white 3" couplings they come with has a very thin line right down the middle of the couple on the outside of this. This line indicates where the 3" pvc pipe would stop if you used that correct and then the connect that goes into the suction side and return side of the pump will also accept a 3" inch pipe that the connector will slip into.......is that correct?

Thanks!

 

[mihzyd777]

And I guess this question is for anyone who wants to answer.......just to make sure my pool builder understands that I know what's going on before I go off on him, that 3" abs elbow them are using that is going to my XF pump is a big NO NO correct? It cannot be used at all PERIOD.....OR do some pool builders ever use this?
Thanks!

 

[mihzyd777]

Also, can someone show me via a hand drawing or anything of how you would run the pipe coming out of my heater, then to my SWG, and finally back to the pool, compared to how they currently have it. Because if I ask them to change it, they will expect me to tell them how to do their jobs.

 

[JamesW]

The pump unions take a 3" coupling to the outside.

I would have the builder bring 2 new unions and do everything 3".

I don't know what the black 3" 90 is but I suspect that it is not correct.

Verify what the 90 is and replace it if necessary with a schedule 40 pvc 90.

 

[JamesW]

This line indicates where the 3" pvc pipe would stop if you used that correct and then the connect that goes into the suction side and return side of the pump will also accept a 3" inch pipe that the connector will slip into.......is that correct?

A 3" coupling with slip over the union and then you glue the 3" pipe into the coupling.

 

[JamesW]

So I'm stuck with 3" suction side pipe from the pool is only about a 25' ft. run. Then I have a separate return each of the waterfalls, the larger 2.5" pipe will feed a 96" sheer rain and that run is about 45'-50'ft max , and then each of the 2 smaller 36" waterfalls are fed by their own 2" pipe and one run is about 25'ft and the other about 35' ft.
Do you think this will be ok?

That should be ok.

The suction should be 4", but there's not much that can be done.

 

[JamesW]

There is a barcode sticker on the 3" black 90. Show what that is.

 

[mihzyd777]

Ok, that is 3" pipe.

The pipe going into and out of the pump is 2.5" pipe.

Measure the outside diameter of the pipe coming out of the pump.

It should measure 2-7/8" across if it is 2.5" pipe.

What will the maximum flow be?

Yup it's 2.5" pipe...not cool. I went and bought the 3" schedule 40 elbows and T myself. Is there a big difference when using 90 sch 40 standard elbow vs. Long sweep? All they had was standard elbow....I'd have to order the long sweep.

 

[mihzyd777]

The pump unions take a 3" coupling to the outside.

I would have the builder bring 2 new unions and do everything 3".

I don't know what the black 3" 90 is but I suspect that it is not correct.

Verify what the 90 is and replace it if necessary with a schedule 40 pvc 90.

The more I dig in and follow everyone's advice the more pised off I'm getting at this company all of a sudden. They were good until now. So the 3" 90 degree elbow is ABS!!!
Is there any excuse at all the pool builder can give me on why he used ABS? What is the psi rating difference between SCH 40 & this ABS?

 

[JamesW]

I went and bought the 3" schedule 40 elbows and T myself.

Those don't look like 3" fittings. What is the inside diameter?

Is there a big difference when using 90 sch 40 standard elbow vs. Long sweep?

If the water velocity is less than 6 ft/sec, I would not worry about sweep fittings. However, since the velocity is expected to exceed 6 ft/sec, I would want a sweep 90.

What is the psi rating difference between SCH 40 & this ABS?

ABS is not acceptable, in my opinion. I would replace it with a schedule 40, 3" sweep 90 and then go into the pump with 3".

You will need new pump unions because the 2.5" is glued inside.

I would come out of the pump at 3" with a T that splits off to the separate lines.

 

[JamesW]

The sticker on the 90 says 3" but does the size stamped on the fitting say 3"?

The inside diameter should be 3.5" to match the outside diameter of 3" pipe.

 

[JamesW]

https://www.lascofittings.com/assets/1824/sweeps2013.pdf

406-030SW Lasco 3" sweep 90.

 

[mihzyd777]

The sticker on the 90 says 3" but does the size stamped on the fitting say 3"?

The inside diameter should be 3.5" to match the outside diameter of 3" pipe.

Yes it is stamped 3" as per the pic attached. The inside diameter is 3.5" . So should be OK but will want sweeps right and the 3" T is good right? When they use the "T", Then they should size it down to the 2.5" and 2" pipe hat feeds the waterfalls right?

Those don't look like 3" fittings. What is the inside diameter?

If the water velocity is less than 6 ft/sec, I would not worry about sweep fittings. However, since the velocity is expected to exceed 6 ft/sec, I would want a sweep 90.

ABS is not acceptable, in my opinion. I would replace it with a schedule 40, 3" sweep 90 and then go into the pump with 3".

You will need new pump unions because the 2.5" is glued inside.

I would come out of the pump at 3" with a T that splits off to the separate lines.

I agree the 90 ABS is not acceptable but is there anything that prevents him from using it, like can he come up with some crazy excuse? Trying trying to play all the scenarios out before he comes by.

 

[sktn77a]

As others have stated, DWV pipe is not acceptable for pool plumbing. All of the 90s (all sizes) appear to be DWV sweeps. Check that they are indeed pressure rated sch 40. If not, they should all be replaced.

 

[JamesW]

I agree the 90 ABS is not acceptable but is there anything that prevents him from using it,

It's only rated for drain, waste and vent. It is not pressure rated. All pool plumbing should be pressure rated.

You can ask the manufacturer if the use is acceptable.

5807-LT - 90° Long Turn Elbow H x H - ABS DWV

The NIBCO® ABS DWV 90-degree long turn elbow is used in residential and commercial drain, waste and vent systems.

www.nibco.com

In my opinion, it is not acceptable.

You can use the 3" non-sweep 90, but I would go with a sweep. It's up to you. It will work either way.

For the discharge, I would have (2) 3" Ts to distribute the water to the individual lines. Use reducer bushings to go to the size of the individual lines.

I would put a valve on each line so that you can control the flow to each line.

 

[JamesW]

All of the 90s (all sizes) appear to be DWV sweeps.

They look like pressure rated, but they should be checked to be sure.

The part number should be stamped on each fitting.

The black sweep is DWV. Since the use is not drain, waste or vent, the use is not acceptable.

 

[mihzyd777]

As others have stated, DWV pipe is not acceptable for pool plumbing. All of the 90s (all sizes) appear to be DWV sweeps. Check that they are indeed pressure rated sch 40. If not, they should all be replaced.

Are you saying all the 90's including the 2" & 2.5" white sweeps don't seem to be Schedule 40? Here is what they are stamped with. Looking up those p/n it seems to be made for pool piping .....right?