Obsessed to Avoid Jug-Lugging... the final frontier

[setsailsoon]

Folks,

Many on here have implemented swg that avoids chlorine jug-lugging. I wanted to also avoid acid jugs so I installed a DIY CO2 injection system. Works great except I'm on well water that's 230 ppm TA. So I still have to lug acid every now and then since the CO2 controls pH rise but doesn't do anything for TA. So here's my plan. Makeup water flows to my spill over basin to maintain basin level. It's a constant 230 ppm TA. I have a brand new under sink RO unit left over from the house build I did a couple years ago. Also have a spare esp32 chip and power at 5v in the cabinet that runs my DIY pool controls. Found a cheap pulse type 1" flow meter on Amazon. So here's the plan to avoid having to jug lug acid to control constantly rising TA:

• Install flow meter on the make up line and connect to the ESP32 that I'll add in the control cabinet
• Write software to calculate TA balance numbers that will calculate runtime of the RO unit (done and tested on a mock up board)
• Mount the RO unit in a storage box located next to the pump suction.
  • Units run on pressure so no power required.
  • Supply water tied to house water line at about 50 psi, no S or Fe, no hardness (softened water) but has the same 230 ppm TA since it's from the same well
  • RO product to flow via 3/8" tubing to drain on pump suction with check valve
  • Solenoid valve on output line.
• ESP 32 will output a signal that controls a small external relay to switch the solenoid valve off based on calculated run time

As best I can tell without meters in place I think I'm adding about 70 gal/day make up water but it does vary a lot with weather. Probably 50-80 gal per day. And when it rains hard we use none for a day or two so I can't really do this without some smarts driving it.

I think that should do it. Thoughts??

Chris

PS TA of RO unit output is less than 10 ppm (turns red with first drop) and slightly acidic. And yes I do have to refill my 20# cylinder every 6 wks or so but it seems better to me than 3-4 gallons of muriatic acid each week.

 

[mas985]

PS TA of RO unit output is less than 10 ppm (turns red with first drop) and slightly acidic. And yes I do have to refill my 20# cylinder every 6 wks or so but it seems better to me than 3-4 gallons of muriatic acid each week.

3-4 gallons of acid each week? Are you sure you need that much? That seems crazy high especially in FL where you have high rain fall.

We have very high PH/TA fill water (PH=8.0, TA>250) and I go through about a box (2x15% jugs) of acid every 4 weeks in the summer hot months and every 8-12 weeks in the winter with rain and lower evaporation.

 

[setsailsoon]

3-4 gallons of acid each week? Are you sure you need that much? That seems crazy high especially in FL where you have high rain fall.

We have very high PH/TA fill water (PH=8.0, TA>250) and I go through about a box (2x15% jugs) of acid every 4 weeks in the summer hot months and every 8-12 weeks in the winter with rain and lower evaporation.

Yep it's a new pool and it's pretty big. Plus we have a 32' Infinity wall so lots of opportunity to aerate. Also almost 800 square feet of surface area. I think when we cure it will do better but even my 12,000 gallon pool previously here in this area took a long time to cure. Never used this much acid in my life!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

At best your RO system will produce 3-4 gallons of waste water for every 1 gallon of processed water. So at 70GPD you’re looking at 210-280 gallons of waste water. Adding a permeate pump would help reduce the waste but even the best permeate pump will probably just get you to double the amount of waste water. A high pressure industrial RO membrane (250psi) would be more efficient but that would require a pressurizing pump and stainless steel plumbing.

RO waste water is good for watering the landscape …

 

[setsailsoon]

At best your RO system will produce 3-4 gallons of waste water for every 1 gallon of processed water. So at 70GPD you’re looking at 210-280 gallons of waste water. Adding a permeate pump would help reduce the waste but even the best permeate pump will probably just get you to double the amount of waste water. A high pressure industrial RO membrane (250psi) would be more efficient but that would require a pressurizing pump and stainless steel plumbing.

RO waste water is good for watering the landscape …

Thanks Matt. Exactly what we're doing with it. I have a couple places in the back that need every bit of the water. Will install some perf pipe and run the discharge into the pipe that I'll put in a 2" trench.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks Matt. Exactly what we're doing with it. I have a couple places in the back that need every bit of the water. Will install some perf pipe and run the discharge into the pipe that I'll put in a 2" trench.

I love you moisture-dwellers … the very thought of discharging 200+ gallons of water per day sends shivers up this desert rat’s spine At nearly $12/kGal water rates, I’d have stroke looking at that monthly water bill

 

[setsailsoon]

I love you moisture-dwellers … the very thought of discharging 200+ gallons of water per day sends shivers up this desert rat’s spine At nearly $12/kGal water rates, I’d have stroke looking at that monthly water bill

Yep, that must be different. The water table is 12-15' all around here. But the soil is also 85% sand so anything on a slope can actually drain out and dry enough to make water hungry St Augustine or Flora-tam brown. So that couple hundred gals would be needed. If I didn't have it I'd add another zone on the sprinkler. Here's the control software I'll use. I can start with plug in values I enter and when I'm satisfied it's working OK I'll run it closed loop to balance the pool:

 

[JoyfulNoise]

FWIW … whenever I get packages with dry ice in them, I always throw the dry ice in the pool. The other day we got a delivery that had two big bricks of dry ice in them, probably 3lbs total. I put the smaller brick in my spa and the larger one in the pool. The spa pH was registering 5.2 on my Apera probe and the pool water near the bubbling brick was 6.9. After it all finished I measured the pool at a pH of about 7.0. TA was unchanged. It returned to normal pH pretty quick but it’s a fun experiment to do showing that dissolved CO2 acidifies water.

 

[setsailsoon]

For a while I had the pump returns going to the spa only and I noticed the same thing. pH was low 6's and I had these white flakes everywhere in the spa. This happened after had let the pool water go up to 200+TA. Hopefully that won't happen if I keep CSI slightly negative.

 

[DrewLG]

I love you moisture-dwellers … the very thought of discharging 200+ gallons of water per day sends shivers up this desert rat’s spine At nearly $12/kGal water rates, I’d have stroke looking at that monthly water bill

I love YOU moisture-dwellers. $50/kgal here.

 

[Katodude]

Now I am really going to make your angry.

@setsailsoon does not even pay for his water. He has two wells he sources from.

 

[setsailsoon]

Now I am really going to make your angry.

@setsailsoon does not even pay for his water. He has two wells he sources from.

Andy knows! My irrigation and pool well runs off a used 1 hp Gould pump I bought second hand from the well guy to construct the house. He put a seal and bearing kit in it and it did the whole construction job plus still does irrigation and pool. $200 including the kit. Doesn't leak a bit still. Gould pumps are amazing! I think my power cost per gallon is about .02 cents per gal.