No water getting to Autofill (standard toilet cistern type)

[Jimbydude]

Hi,

I've searched forums/google but all that comes up for autofill are problems with the valve itself.

I noticed that the pool water level was way lower than normal and it seems to happen over few days. Also the pump was laboring, going in spurts. We have solar nets but I have disabled that for now.
When I checked the auto fill nothing happened when I pressed on float so I unscrewed the valve completely and found that there was no water getting it all.

I wondered if this pipe had somehow got blocked, if so how can I check that and what else could cause this.

I manually filled pool with garden hose and pump appeared to behave normally again initially but when I turned off/on today to empty basket it did the sputtering thing much longer than normal before setting down.

Any help/suggestions before calling someone in would be great.

It's a 15000gal pool, Hayward filter/heater/variable pump.

 

[Dirk]

Do you know from where the autofill is getting its water? Is there a valve somewhere else in the yard? Usually coming out of the house somewhere. Or at the pool pad? If the autofill was installed correctly, there will be a vacuum breaker valve (a back flow preventer). It might look like a sprinkler valve. That's a common install, and (as I write elsewhere here) is actually the wrong kind of valve to use and can fail because of that.

Look for the shutoff valve for the autofill. Take a picture of it for me. And we'll go from there...

 

[Jimbydude]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, most appreciated.

I cannot find anything that remotely looks like it had anything to do with the autofill at the equipment end. I've also looked around and there's nothing.

I've taken a few pics. The only thing that is unusual is a what looks like a small pipe inside a larger pipe with a viewing window (attached). Could that be it ?
View attachment 80190
View attachment 80191
View attachment 80192

 

[Dirk]

That first pic looks to be a check valve. That keeps water from flowing the wrong way in your plumbing. That's not what we're after. In fact, the autofill shutoff valve (if there is one) would not be connected to any of your pool plumbing (the 2" pipe that runs between filter and pump and big valves, etc). What we're looking for is likely connected to 3/4" pipe, probably PVC pipe. Maybe like this:



If there is no shutoff valve, near the house or pool pad, that has 1/2" or 3/4" pipe running in and out of it, then you might have to start digging. Sometimes a shutoff valve is placed underground, in an irrigation box (like with a green lid). Sometimes round. Some times rectangular. And sometimes they get buried. Like these:



Are you sure you disassembled the float mechanism enough to expose the water supply before the valve? So that if there was water pressure, it would shoot out? If so, and if you want to get this thing working, you kinda have two choices. To dig up the existing supply line and trace it back to the source. Maybe there is a buried valve, and maybe it's off or clogged or defective. Or you can run a new line to it, from a hose bib or other water line.

Did it ever work?

 

[Jimbydude]

Hi Dirk, thanks for reply.

To answer last question first, it was definitely working fine as I did check it now and then by pushing down o the float and saw/heard water gush. Also, I removed the entire valve assembly by unscrewing it to leave just the open ended pipe sticking out into pot, so fairly sure no water getting to it.

There is nothing like your first pic around equipment and no boxes that I'm aware of but it was 3yrs ago that I landscaped so when I get home tonight I'll dig around just in case memory if failing me.

Also I have emailed the pool company to see if they can tell but so far heard nothing back.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Dirk]

Quite a mystery. If the pipe broke, you'd see a puddle. And what could get into the water system big enough to completely seal up a pipe? Clog it a bit maybe, but you'd still get water seeping out of the pipe at the autofill housing. Weird.

A failed vacuum breaker valve is still my best guess. But those are not supposed to be underground, so shouldn't be in a buried landscape box. Shouldn't be, but could be, I suppose.

Maybe the pipe could be broken and running down a gopher hole (rodents do chew through pipe). Do you know how to check for water leaks at your water meter? Turn everything off, then go observe your water meter. There should be a little flow indicator. Sometimes they are triangular, or look a bit like an asterisk. If you have everything off, and the thing is spinning, you have a leak somewhere. It it's not moving, your plumbing is OK. All far fetched. If your autofill's pipe was severed, and pumping full blast, you'd likely hear water running through the pipes somewhere in the yard.

This is what you're supposed to have somewhere, feeding the autofill system:



But sometimes PBs will use one of these instead, or a PVC cheapie + ball valve, like the one I pictured above:



So those are some things to search for around your house. My autofill source was tied into my landscape irrigation plumbing. And the shutoff valve was buried good, in a little round irrigation box, about 6" underground! Go figure. So a valve, of any type, could be just about anywhere, unfortunately.

My neighbor's autofill supply line cracked and ran for a day. I went over to shut it off for him and couldn't find a valve. It looked to have been plumbed directly to a hose bib. So it's possible there is no valve.

Do you have a hose bib that comes out from the exterior wall, and has a pipe T'd off that leads underground?

 

[Jimbydude]

ooooh, that second pic looks familiar. I def have one of those at the outdoor faucet, not too far away from equipment. I'm so excited I'm going to call wife and get her to check that hasn't been turned off for some reason, assuming that could be it. We do have gardeners who, about moth ago said he replaced a sprinkler head that was broken....

 

[Dirk]

Now we're getting somewhere! I believe open is the two valves as shown in the pic, parallel to the pipe.

Gardeners! Of course. Not sure why my head first went to defective vacuum breaker. One that was just shut off inadvertently is the much more likely scenario!

 

[Jimbydude]

Dirk, you are the man, I got wife to check it and sure enough it was turned off. I can only assume that they turned it off when replacing sprinkler and not back on !!!

In the years I've had pool I've never had to think about it !

Thank you so much as this was obviously a worry, and not too mention potentially expensive even to get someone to come and look at me like I was crazy for not knowing that.

 

[Dirk]

Ta da! Glad it was an easy fix.

Well, if you feel your experience here saved you some money and trouble, you could always consider a donation to TFP by becoming a supporter. It's how they keep the doors open, and all of us able to chat with each other...

CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!

 

[Jimbydude]

Done

 

[Dirk]

Good man. If you really want to get your money's worth, continue to visit here and learn about TFP and their methods. Or download the Pool School book and study up. You'll have amazing water, at a fraction of the cost you're likely spending now (if you're maintaining your water in any other way than TFPC).

Have a great summer!

 

[Dirk]

Nice shiny badge ya got there, dude!