No Suction

[OneBadUukha]

Hi everyone.

I live in an area with occasional strong winds. It's that time of year. I've been running my pump a couple of hours per day with the creepy crawly vacuum picking up the debris from the winds. It does a great job. After a night of strong winds the vacuum started up again and cleaned for awhile, but then it stopped. The pump was running, but no suction.

I thought the basket by the motor was full. It was, only a little though. I emptied it and started it again. After 5-10 minutes, still nothing. When I turn off the pump and looked in the reservoir (i have to take off the cover, can't see through it like modern systems) that contains the basket, water flows back into the reservoir from the direction of the filter. Given this and that the motor runs, these indicate that the pump is working.

However, no water comes from the supply side, that is, in from the pool. I unhooked the vaccum from the skimmer return to remove it from the equation. No change. I connected an airtight hose to the skimmer drain hole and was able to blow air through it that someone at the other end near the reservoir could feel. So it's not clogged.

Any suggestions you may have as to the cause and solution would be grand. Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

one,

Welcome to TFP... A great place to be..

The number one reason for low or no suction is that there is an air leak at the O-Ring under the pump basket lid. Tell us more about your pool. What size pump and what kind of filter. What does the pressure gauge on the filter read, when the pump is running? When was the last time you cleaned your filter?

Jim R.

 

[OneBadUukha]

one,

Welcome to TFP... A great place to be..

The number one reason for low or no suction is that there is an air leak at the O-Ring under the pump basket lid. Tell us more about your pool. What size pump and what kind of filter. What does the pressure gauge on the filter read, when the pump is running? When was the last time you cleaned your filter?

Jim R.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure of the manufacturer of the pump because the label is worn off. It does say 1.5 hp. Not sure what kind of filter it is. I have posted some pictures. Hope this will help. For the first time, I opened the filter. It was deplorable. I'm not sure it has been serviced in years. I cleaned off the filters as shown. There was a bunch of sand in the filter. I hosed off the inside of the filter tank, too. The tank has a drain, which I opened, but nothing came out of the tank. The pressure gauge is unreadable. I'm sort of stuck here. Please have a look at the pics. I'll answer any questions you may have. Thanks.

 

[SacPoolPros]

have you tried checking your pump impeller to see if it is clogged with any debris ?

 

[Jimrahbe]

One,

So that is a DE filter. What you took out and cleaned are the "grids". One of them should be smaller than the others and has to go in a specific place. If you look at the top manifold it will tell your where the short one goes.

You say you removed the tank drain, but nothing came out.. If the tank still has water in it, then it should come out the drain hole. If not, you will need to find out what is plugging it up.

Keep in mind that you will have to put new DE powder back in the filter. DE stands for Diatomaceous Earth and it is sold in most Home Depot or Lowes type of stores.

If you can measure the length of one of the grids, we can tell you how much DE to add and how to add it. Can you read the side of the filter and see if it tells you the "size" of the filter... as in 36, 48 or 60 cubic inches"

It took me about an hour do reassemble the first one I took apart. I thought I was going to have to call someone and then it just fell into place. Be careful, you don't want to crack the grids.

I suspect this will fix your flow issue, but I would also check the impeller on your pump as suggested above.

You need to get that gage replaced. This is how you tell when it is time to clean your filter.

Jim R.

 

[OneBadUukha]

One,

So that is a DE filter. What you took out and cleaned are the "grids". One of them should be smaller than the others and has to go in a specific place. If you look at the top manifold it will tell your where the short one goes.

You say you removed the tank drain, but nothing came out.. If the tank still has water in it, then it should come out the drain hole. If not, you will need to find out what is plugging it up.

Keep in mind that you will have to put new DE powder back in the filter. DE stands for Diatomaceous Earth and it is sold in most Home Depot or Lowes type of stores.

If you can measure the length of one of the grids, we can tell you how much DE to add and how to add it. Can you read the side of the filter and see if it tells you the "size" of the filter... as in 36, 48 or 60 cubic inches"

It took me about an hour do reassemble the first one I took apart. I thought I was going to have to call someone and then it just fell into place. Be careful, you don't want to crack the grids.

I suspect this will fix your flow issue, but I would also check the impeller on your pump as suggested above.

You need to get that gage replaced. This is how you tell when it is time to clean your filter.

Jim R.

Great, maybe there's hope. Each grid is 24" long. There are eight of them. I really can't tell the difference between any of them or the holes in the tank that they go in.

As for the impeller, I think it's fine. With the pump basket lid off, I started the pump and sprayed hose water into the inlet. The pump drew water in faster than the hose could keep up. This filled the tank nearly to the top. Some air bubbles came in with it. I then turned off the pump and quickly put on the pump basket lid very tight. I turned on the pump again. No new water came in the tank, but the same amount of bubbles did. I turned off the pump, and air forced its way out of the basket lid. Is this an indication that the O-ring (which looks fine) needs to be replaced?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Everyone that I have worked with had one skinny one. They are all the same length, but one is much narrower, than the others. If you don't have a narrow one, don't worry about it. Could be just a different model than I am used to.

You will need to add 5 pounds of DE powder to your filter, once you have it all reassembled and running. Try not to breath in any of the DE dust....

You do this by taking a five gallon bucket and adding all five pounds of material to the dry bucket. Then add water from a garden hose. Stick the hose down in the bucket and move it back and forth. You be amazed how much water will still fit in the bucket. Stir it up with a stick or paddle. With the pump running (and water returning back to your pool with good pressure) slowly pour the "goop" into the skimmer with the basket removed. This will coat the grids with DE and you will be good to go again.

You do not want to run your pump for a long time without DE in the system. But a few minutes to confirm that your pump is again working, and that water is flowing, will not be a problem.

Jim R.

 

[OneBadUukha]

Everyone that I have worked with had one skinny one. They are all the same length, but one is much narrower, than the others. If you don't have a narrow one, don't worry about it. Could be just a different model than I am used to.

You will need to add 5 pounds of DE powder to your filter, once you have it all reassembled and running. Try not to breath in any of the DE dust....

You do this by taking a five gallon bucket and adding all five pounds of material to the dry bucket. Then add water from a garden hose. Stick the hose down in the bucket and move it back and forth. You be amazed how much water will still fit in the bucket. Stir it up with a stick or paddle. With the pump running (and water returning back to your pool with good pressure) slowly pour the "goop" into the skimmer with the basket removed. This will coat the grids with DE and you will be good to go again.

You do not want to run your pump for a long time without DE in the system. But a few minutes to confirm that your pump is again working, and that water is flowing, will not be a problem.

Jim R.

Ok. Looks like we're getting somewhere. I got the suction back and put the DE in the filter. The only thing is some of it got pumped into the pool. I hope that gets sucked back in and caught by the grids. We'll see. I also replaced the pressure gauge. It runs at about 12 PSI with the creepy crawly attached and a few PSI lower without it. Thanks.

 

[Jimrahbe]

That's great!! Glad you got it worked out.

Jim R.

 

[duraleigh]

I got the suction back and put the DE in the filter.

What did you do to get it back?

 

[OneBadUukha]

Thanks for asking. I cleaned my DE filter completely, and I took the advice provided in this thread. I replaced the old DE with new DE (though some got into the pool) and securely tightened my pump basket lid. The suction has returned, but I soon realized that my troubles are not quite over.

After running the pump for 5-10 minutes, the suction isn't that great. It's enough to get the water through the system, but there are bubbles coming out of the jets, and the water coming out them isn't that strong. I also have to bleed the filter tank frequently. I open the valve at the top. Air comes out stronger and stronger until water shoots out pretty strongly. I close the valve, wait a few minutes, then have to repeat. The pressure is never more than 8-9 PSI in the pump.

I've been reading the article here about Side Air Suction Leaks, and it sounds exactly like what it is. Locating the leak is proving tough. I highly doubt it's the basket lid because I secure it tightly with channel locks, and when I turn off the pump and loosen the bolts, only then do I hear air getting through. It's pretty old, so it's still a possibility. Just need to keep looking.

 

[duraleigh]

Yeah, it does sound like a suction side leak. Keep troubleshooting....you'll locate it. Don't overtighten that lid and break something. Are you sucking air into the skimmer? If so, your water is too low in the pool. Start there and work toward the pump. Don't worry about it being an underground pipe. It is possible, but VERY unlikely. Be stubborn....you'll find it!

 

[pooldv]

More tips here, Pool School - Suction Side Air Leaks

 

[xyz]

Instead of tightening the heck out of the lid, check the rubber o-ring. Or just order a replacement, they are cheap.

Then get some magic lube or similar PTFE gasket grease, and clean the o-ring surfaces and inspect them for smoothness, and flatness.

Lube both o-ring surfaces, lube the cover "threads" or "ramps" that cause the cover to close down, and do this with medium hand tight force. You have a much better chance of having no air leaks this way than with mega force with wrenches. And much less chance if warping or distorting the cover--causing other issues.

Also, if the cover IS warped, or the sealing surface damaged, get a new one.