Newbie. Begging for help with algae

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erick5

0
Jul 15, 2018
16
Medford, Oregon
Hello all!

I am in desperate need of help trying to rid my 35,000 inground vinyl pool of a possible mustard algae. I have read extensively about the SLAM process. I ordered a Taylor K-2006 test kit, which is taking forever to arrive. In the meantime, my pool is growing algae at an excessive rate. We went from a spot to now a green/cloudy pool that we can barely see down 2 feet. We have attempted to keep chlorine levels up with 12% liquid chlorine just to keep the algae at bay until we can properly SLAM with a test kit. Test kit arrives wednesday. We have had the stores test our water approx every other day. 4 days ago we drained and filled 11,000 gallons to get our CYA down. The results are all over the place. Today's test result are:
FC: OVR 20.14
TC: OVR 20.14
CC: 0 ppm
pH: 7.5
Hardness: 90 ppm
Alk: 51 ppm
CYA: 121 ppm (this is up from 37 ppm 2 days ago, nothing has been added to the pool besides 12% chlorine and muriatic acid)
Copper: 0.1 ppm
Iron: 0.1

Phosphates are over 1000. The pool store says that is why we have a problem.

I'm dying here. We have tried everything and are so close to just doing what the store says. I know we need to wait for the test kit, but our pool is in a horrible state while we wait. My questions are: 1) HOW are we growing algae so fast with such high chlorine levels?? 2) HOW are our CYA levels going up when nothing with CYA is being added? 3) Are we ever going to get rid of the algae with such high phosphate levels?

Thanks so much for your expertise! I am really at my wits end.
 
https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/123-abc-of-pool-water-chemistry

Here are four other chemical levels that come up frequently enough that you should at least know what they are:

  • CC - Combined Chlorine - CC over 0.5ppm indicates a problem.
  • Salt - Required with a SWG (Salt Water chlorine Generator), otherwise an optional enhancement.
  • Borate - An optional enhancement.
  • Phosphate - Doesn't matter, despite pool store claims otherwise.
Click to expand...
 
We have a bad habit of torturing ourselves. We took another water sample to a different store today (same day). :rolleyes: Results as follows:

FC: OVR 17.4
TC: OVR 17.4
CC: 0 ppm
pH: 7.7
Hardness: 186 ppm
Alk: 63 ppm
CYA: 32 ppm !!! Are you kidding me??
Copper: 0.1 ppm
Iron: 0.1

They also ran phosphates. 0. ZERO phosphates.

I don't even know what to say. She thinks the pool is green because there is "too much chlorine". She thinks the algae is dead and we just need to wait for the chlorine levels to come down. Impatiently waiting for the Taylor kit...
 
:wave: Welcome to TFP!!!

So, those 2 sets of test results prove why we do not trust pool store testing. ;)

Wait for your test kit.
Did you get the K2006C ... note the C!!!
If not, then you should order refills for the FAS-DPD chlorine test and the CYA test now, because you will quickly run out.
 
Not really.

The only way that could be possible is if the chlorine and pH were such that the metals in your water were pull out. But this causes the pool to look green (the water is really more yellow), but it would still be clear. Unless perhaps you have multiple issues occurring at the same time.
 

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In my experience, green = alive, growing algae (although as someone pointed out, it could also mean copper, but it's usually just algae).

Also, mustard algae is yellow-ish and powdery looking, brushes up easily, but really hard to kill. However, mustard algae can definitely consume all your chlorine, creating an environment for green algae to thrive.

Whenever my pool is green, and does not respond to a "normal" shock treatment, it's because CYA is high. CYA is also one of the more challenging tests. It might take you a few tries to get the hang of it. However, it is critical to get an accurate CYA level so you know how much chlorine to add.

"Too much chlorine" is pool store talk for "you added too much stabilized chlorine so your CYA is too high and "normal" levels of FC no longer work"... note that their solution is to "add more chlorine" which is supposed to somehow "breakdown" your "too much chlorine". At least this is what my pool store told me many years ago, and, convoluted logic like this motivated me to find this forum.

If you're using tri-chlor tabs for chlorination, stop right now.
 
SDor said:
In my experience, green = alive, growing algae (although as someone pointed out, it could also mean copper, but it's usually just algae).

Also, mustard algae is yellow-ish and powdery looking, brushes up easily, but really hard to kill. However, mustard algae can definitely consume all your chlorine, creating an environment for green algae to thrive.

Whenever my pool is green, and does not respond to a "normal" shock treatment, it's because CYA is high. CYA is also one of the more challenging tests. It might take you a few tries to get the hang of it. However, it is critical to get an accurate CYA level so you know how much chlorine to add.

"Too much chlorine" is pool store talk for "you added too much stabilized chlorine so your CYA is too high and "normal" levels of FC no longer work"... note that their solution is to "add more chlorine" which is supposed to somehow "breakdown" your "too much chlorine". At least this is what my pool store told me many years ago, and, convoluted logic like this motivated me to find this forum.

If you're using tri-chlor tabs for chlorination, stop right now.
Click to expand...

We are unsure of the CYA levels at this time because we are still unable to test on our own (test kit arrives tomorrow). We have emptied a third of our pool to get CYA levels down. They then tested (at the pool store) 30 ish ppm multiple times. Our frustration with just the testing at the pool store led us here. We have not added anything to the pool since reading here with the exception of 12% liquid chlorine and muriatic acid. We will begin the SLAM on friday when we can test the water ourselves and spend all weekend trying to see some sort of change. As frustration as all this has been, we have at least learned a whole lot. There will never be another tri-chlor tab put in our pool.
 
I finally received my Taylor test kit on Thursday. We had drained 11,000g out of our pool 1 week ago attempting to lower CYA levels. When I tested with the Taylor kit the first time it gave a CYA level of over 100 still. We then drained another 10,000 gallons. We are now at around $1000 of water alone (on a well, water trucked in). My reading after adding water was 60 ppm for CYA. I'm now at an 80 ppm CYA. I'm assuming that is due to the mixing of old and new water? It's the only thing that makes sense. We can't justify draining and refilling anymore. This pool is killing us financially.

Anyway, we started the SLAM with what we though was 60 ppm and then raised the FC to 31 for a CYA of 80. My questions are:
1. Is is normal to not be seeing any sort of change over a 24 hour period?
2. We don't seem to be losing much FC. I'm testing every 2-3 hours and not losing hardly any. Is this normal? I would have thought we would be adding chlorine like crazy.

I'd love to just see some change. I can't remember what my pool looks like :(
 
erick5 said:
I finally received my Taylor test kit on Thursday. We had drained 11,000g out of our pool 1 week ago attempting to lower CYA levels. When I tested with the Taylor kit the first time it gave a CYA level of over 100 still. We then drained another 10,000 gallons. We are now at around $1000 of water alone (on a well, water trucked in). My reading after adding water was 60 ppm for CYA. I'm now at an 80 ppm CYA. I'm assuming that is due to the mixing of old and new water? It's the only thing that makes sense. We can't justify draining and refilling anymore. This pool is killing us financially.

Anyway, we started the SLAM with what we though was 60 ppm and then raised the FC to 31 for a CYA of 80. My questions are:
1. Is is normal to not be seeing any sort of change over a 24 hour period?
2. We don't seem to be losing much FC. I'm testing every 2-3 hours and not losing hardly any. Is this normal? I would have thought we would be adding chlorine like crazy.

I'd love to just see some change. I can't remember what my pool looks like :(
Click to expand...

Erik:

Please take a deep breath and a step back. Forget about everything you have heard from the pool stores, until you test the water with the kit. Trust only your results. Please post up a full set of test results and also if possible upload a few pictures of the pool. You can manage your water with a CYA of 80. Eventually your CYA will come down naturally (over time) and you will be where you need to be. The chlorine consumption is greater at higher CYA levels, but will definitely be less expensive than water replacement.

After you post your levels, please continue the SLAM process. We will guide you once you post some results. Take your time with the testing and your CYA can not increase unless you added stabilizer. The CYA test must be done outdoors with the sun to your back.
 
erick5 said:
Thanks, Catanzaro. My results with the Taylor test kit are:FC: 32 CC: .5pH: 7.2 (taken before raising FC levels) TA: 110 CH: 90 CYA: 80
Click to expand...

Erick:

We need to make sure of the following:

1) Pump is to be running 24/7 (no exceptions)

2) You will need to keep your chlorine levels up towards SLAM based on your CYA. With a CYA of 80, you are at 31. Because you will high levels to begin with, chlorine will burn off faster.

3) Brush, Brush, Brush, Brush, Brush (Why 5X), because you will need to brush a lot in the first few days until water becomes of better quality. Again, I have no pictures in front of me or can see the pool.

4) Remove the ladder and keep out of the pool. Clean separately and allow to dry outside.

5) Take a large microfiber towel, if not go to Wal-Mart and purchase one. Use this to get behind the light niche, between the liner and white round housing (again if you have a light and designed this way). Tuck in and move back and forth and you will probably see algae floating in the pool, which of course chlorine and vacuuming will take care of. You may want to remove the light and place on the patio for the time being until the slam is over as well. Use the towel to get inside the niche housing and clean in there as well. The skimmer(s) can also be cleaned behind with the towel. You are using the towel to just move things around.

I had issues with a solar cover and this area was not cleaned for years, but when I used the towel a lot of junk came floating out. Did not remove the light as this was done previous year when light was changed.

6) Maintain your backwashing when you pressure increases about 25%. If you have good pressure, even at 35%, you could possibly wait a little longer, especially if this happens within another 24 hours or so.

7) To save on reagents, use 5 ml. sample and each drop counts as 1, instead of .5. Only do this until the last few days and then switch back to the 10 ml. sample. I am assuming the K2006 Kit is the same as the TF-100. You do not want to run out of drops during the SLAM process. Also, it does not really matter if you are off at the levels you will need to be. Remember that the high chlorine levels are designed to be there to make sure that the algae is being killed faster than its growing.

8) Maintain SLAM levels and only raise to mustard algae at the end.

Chlorine/CYA Chart

If your water is crystal clear and remains this way for about 3 days (recommend you keep the SLAM for extra 2-3 days), then perform the Mustard Algae and increase your levels. Allow them to come down to between 10-15 ppm before performing the OCLT. You will have a high probability of failing the test just on testing error alone. If your water is crystal clear and you fail the test at these levels, then perform the test under 10 ppm. Test at 10 p.m. and at 6 a.m. to determine if a loss of less than 1 ppm is there.

Lastly, please describe how many skimmers, main drains, and returns you have and the location of them. If your pool has limited returns and only one skimmer, you may need to keep your filter running longer, and have higher than normal minimum FC levels, and more importantly brush at least 2X-3X weekly. A friend of mine with only one return, one skimmer and one main drain had to brush daily, at least in the July and August months. If not, he went from crystal clear to cloudy and to algae. Used to take him 10 days to clear the pool up, just by missing a few steps. In reality only needed to add 12 extra ounces of liquid chlorine daily and spend 5 minutes brushing.
 
7) To save on reagents, use 5 ml. sample and each drop counts as 1, instead of .5. Only do this until the last few days and then switch back to the 10 ml. sample. I am assuming the K2006 Kit is the same as the TF-100. You do not want to run out of drops during the SLAM process. Also, it does not really matter if you are off at the levels you will need to be. Remember that the high chlorine levels are designed to be there to make sure that the algae is being killed faster than its growing.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this. I purchased the extra reagents, but have still been going through so much! Would I still use 1 scoop of the powder?

Lastly, please describe how many skimmers, main drains, and returns you have and the location of them. If your pool has limited returns and only one skimmer, you may need to keep your filter running longer, and have higher than normal minimum FC levels, and more importantly brush at least 2X-3X weekly. A friend of mine with only one return, one skimmer and one main drain had to brush daily, at least in the July and August months. If not, he went from crystal clear to cloudy and to algae. Used to take him 10 days to clear the pool up, just by missing a few steps. In reality only needed to add 12 extra ounces of liquid chlorine daily and spend 5 minutes brushing.
Click to expand...

We have 2 skimmers, no main drain that I know of?, and 2 returns located at opposite ends of the pool. It is a plain ol' rectangle. Filter runs 24/7. We are brushing at least 2x/day.

I'm embarrassed with how we maintained the pool prior to this. I'm surprised we haven't had more issues until now. The amount we have learned in the last 3 weeks is astonishing! Thank you so much for your help!

I will provide a picture when I can.
 
Still use one scoop of powder for the 5 ml FC test.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty green! Hit it with bleach. It should change to cloudy blue pretty quickly.
 
We seem to have seen a very slight change in green since yesterday. Maybe a little lighter? We haven't lost any chlorine since last night though. Is that weird? FC at 10pm was 35, at 5:30am 36, 8am 35 and 1045 am 35. I would have thought we would be losing rapidly?

Edit to add: We are in the Pacific Northwest which is on fire right now. We literally have ash falling out of the sky. Is there something I need to watch for? I am currently not able to test for pH because of chlorine.
 
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