New Sundance Spa - Choosing a Sanitizing Routine

[phonedave]

The point is that with chloroform (in particular) and chlorine in general, we're dealing with substances that are known carcinogens, harm the kidneys and liver, and can impair cognitive function. We're also dealing with long term exposure. To your point about drinking and bathing in tap water, I do neither and bathing is a known source of uptake of HKs and Chlorform as show in these research articles: Dermal uptake of chloroform and haloketones during bathing and ...Dermal Absorption of Chloroform by Humans following Bath Water Exposures.

So, I have no judgment on other who choose the risks associated with chlorine, but to tell me there are no dangers amounts to putting one's head in the sand. We make choices and take calculated risks. My choices are no less valid than yours.

While I have no research to cite, and I am pretty certain that I would not find any either supporting or detracting, the risk of illness and associated bodily damage that is associated with soaking in contaminated water is higher than the damage associated with properly chlorinated water.

For that matter there has been no research done on if silver nitrate is a carcinogen or not. Large amounts can cause organ damage - maybe bathing in silver nitrate is worse than chlorine - who knows?

 

[contentedPilgrim]

Understood - but for the record, if you have 24" of snow on your cover, you should push some of that off.

Point well taken, although I probably over exaggerated. 18 inches isn't unheard of when plowing is the first priority.

I won't debate it then. I appreciate the insight into your decision making process.

What I am discovering in these discussions is that there are ways for the chlorine to get removed- in particular with an ozone generator. If ozone truly breaks down chloramines (leaving what compounds?), does the FC then off-gas? Is it possible to use chlorine with ozone and end up with no chloramines and no FC?

If you are only using the tub once a week, you may indeed get by with that. But any more usage than that is a big risk. Nature2 is a very weak sanitizer, ozone and UV are only working on whatever gets into the Ozone and UV mechanism. In other words, if there is something in your tub (lets be semi gross here some solid organic material from somebody) here is what is going to happen. It will get lodged in your filter, it will never get close to the ozone or UV treatments. The mild Nature2 will do a little, but that substance is going to grow and dump bacteria into the water where it will find nooks and crannies to breed in.

Thanks for the visual But I really do appreciate the reminder of the dangers. When I tell my wife that I don't want others using our hot tub (specifically her 85 year old father), it's for these very reasons. I trust my own family's hygiene and am counting on it.

Just because you have FC in the water does not mean you have nothing actively growing in the water too.
Normally a dedicated circulation pump runs 24 hours. A jet pump that is also used for filtering is on the 8 hour timer.

It really is a dedicated circulation pump. The Sundance 980 series includes it along with 2 jet pumps. The number of hours it runs per day is programmable but defaults to 8.

Discussion is good. Research is good too. As far as what chemicals are around us, I am pretty in tune to that I well, different people make different decisions.

While I have done a lot of reading and have years of (accidental) experience, I still have a lot to learn. Among other subjects, I teach middle school science (including chemistry) and I suppose this hot tub will be my science lab. Thanks for your ongoing conversation and input.

 

[contentedPilgrim]

We just cross-posted.

While I have no research to cite, and I am pretty certain that I would not find any either supporting or detracting, the risk of illness and associated bodily damage that is associated with soaking in contaminated water is higher than the damage associated with properly chlorinated water.

I would agree. Some level of bacteria is going to be present, but the goal as I understand it is keeping it from growing.

For that matter there has been no research done on if silver nitrate is a carcinogen or not. Large amounts can cause organ damage - maybe bathing in silver nitrate is worse than chlorine - who knows?

I agree any chemical additives to our water have risks. Silver nitrate at least has one interesting positive use - drops are place in the eyes of newborn babies to prevent a rare form of blindness.

 

[JoeSelf]

I have an 800 series and I'm 3 weeks into ownership. I still have the circ pump set for the 8 hrs as from factory. I'm learning what effect that will have on the FC level. I still get a hint of something, sometimes when I open the cover, but I also don't hop right in. I let it breath for a bit. Run some tests, grab a beer, etc.

I had a pool for 16 years, since 2014 on TFP. Never had a problem after going all in. Plenty of times myself and others were in water with FC level of 10. Never heard a complaint. No dry skin, burning eyes, no I smell chlorine.

But again I used to ride my bike behind the mosquito truck going thru the development.

 

[phonedave]

I agree any chemical additives to our water have risks. Silver nitrate at least has one interesting positive use - drops are place in the eyes of newborn babies to prevent a rare form of blindness.

Not any more - that is old school.

They use antibiotics now.

It is for syphilis I believe.

 

[phonedave]

What I am discovering in these discussions is that there are ways for the chlorine to get removed- in particular with an ozone generator. If ozone truly breaks down chloramines (leaving what compounds?), does the FC then off-gas? Is it possible to use chlorine with ozone and end up with no chloramines and no FC?

There are people on here that are much better able to discuss this than me, such as @chem geek , but I'll take a stab at it.

When you add Chlorine to water - either through adding sodium hypochlorite (bleach), DiChlor / TriChlor (granules), or gas (either gas injection or technically a SWGC) you are adding free chlorine FC (OCl- hypochlorite ions) to the water.

When free chlorine reacts with amines, which are ammonia compounds that are present in waste products (in a hot tub it is perspiration and hopefully not urine), they combine to from chloramines (combined chlorine, combined chloramines, CC's)

CC's are what causes the burning eyes and "chlorine smell" that people associate with chlorinated water.

To get rid of CC's, they need to be oxidized. That can be done with ozone, UV light, MPS, hydrogen peroxide, or more chlorine (breakpoint chlorination).

When oxidized CC's off gas. If there is a cover (such as on a hot tub) they have nowhere to go, and can actually be re-dissolved. Opening your tub and letting it vent before using is a good thing to do, as is doing it every so often (such as if using chlorine, on the daily basis when you add bleach )

Ozone reacts with FC - hypochlorite ions to oxidize them. Resulting in chloride, chlorite, and chlorates.