New Pool Plaster Issues (Cracking)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
I'm curious what part of town you're in and how the dig went? It seems there are a lot of new neighborhoods going in up in the mountains with a lot of backfilled material.

Do you know if they were digging in virgin ground? Any cliche?
 
Update: Our rep from the pool company came out (same guy we’ve dealt with thru plans to now) this morning.

Doing a bucket leak test. Will go from there. I asked about the process for worst case scenario which he says would be coming in, hammering out a section of wall and adding rebar to the area to strengthen in, and going from there. I’m sure I missed some parts of it, but I asked how they are able to ascertain that it’s not a large structural failure without removing the decking and inspecting. Seemed to be set in figuring out if there is a leak first. Then if so, going from there - which seem to be a form of patching the crack and replacing the area of concrete/decking on top due to the crack.

If this sounds not at all okay, what words and steps do I need to advocate that this is looked and gone thru in the appropriate manner? I don’t have an engineering degree, I’m not a pool expert, etc. I don’t want to get snowed by the builder, so I want to make sure I’m being assertive enough. Does it make sense to have an independent person look at this? If so, who do I even look for?

Thanks
 
meow_meow said:
I asked about the process for worst case scenario which he says would be coming in, hammering out a section of wall and adding rebar to the area to strengthen in, and going from there.
Click to expand...
If the crack is due to settling, then there is nothing that will prevent cracking other than addressing the settling.

In my opinion, trying to strengthen the wall is mostly pointless.

If there is no settling, then the wall should not crack because there will be little to no stress.

The best you can do is patch the crack and watch for settling by checking level and maybe a periodic elevation survey to see if the pool is moving up or down anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kimkats and meow_meow
JamesW said:
If the crack is due to settling, then there is nothing that will prevent cracking other than addressing the settling.

In my opinion, trying to strengthen the wall is mostly pointless.

If there is no settling, then the wall should not crack because there will be little to no stress.

The best you can do is patch the crack and watch for settling by checking level and maybe a periodic elevation survey to see if the pool is moving up or down anywhere.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.

I spoke someone I know in the pool industry (not a builder, but been in various levels of the industry for over 30 years) that I know.

He did say to me that in his experience, 90% of cracks like this are not structural - usually around a fitting or pipe in the ground or are due to settling. He echoed what my builder said - that it’s likely settling. Maybe I’m looking at it with rose-colored glasses right now. Unsure if this makes it any better.

My contact said to do leak test (doing currently) and ask them to do a pressure test for the lines as well. Then go from there. He said if it’s settling, it’s just more wait and see at this point. Also, to check back with the builder specifically about the warranty (dates, specifics - I do also have this info) for the plaster and shotcrete.

Still willing to hear yours and others’ opinions during this process. This is obviously not what I want, but I do want to stay informed and get the best possible solution to this situation.
 
Settling is structural.

The crack is structural because it goes through the gunite/shotcrete.

Superficial is if it only goes through the plaster.

Settling can be bad depending on how much settling happens.

That's why you have to monitor it for elevation changes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dfwnoob

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
meow_meow said:
Ok. What is the best way to monitor elevation changes?
Click to expand...
Checking the water level is the easiest and cheapest way.

Document exact elevation differences at different points and note any differences.

Also, watch for new cracks or propagation of existing cracks.

The other way is to get a transit and a professional elevation survey periodically to monitor for any changes.
 
JamesW said:
Checking the water level is the easiest and cheapest way.

Document exact elevation differences at different points and note any differences.

Also, watch for new cracks or propagation of existing cracks.

The other way is to get a transit and a professional elevation survey periodically to monitor for any changes.
Click to expand...
Thank you. So measuring these on the tile line with a tape measure, correct?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesW
It is basically impossible to strengthen a wall after the fact.

You have to get the soil and support correct before the shell is shot.

The shell has to be correct from design, engineering and architecture with the correct rebar, psi and thickness as well as actual placement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: meow_meow
There are various crack repair methods/systems out there that might be effective. I have limited experience with them but it may be worth a shot.

torque-lock.com

Torque Lock Structural Staples

The Torque-Lock ™ staple is a revolutionary technique used to repair structural cracks on any solid cement based surface. Using its patented Cam Lock technique, it stabilizes the concrete crack by creating up to 5000 lbs of compression torque for each staple installed.
torque-lock.com torque-lock.com
 
I’m guessing that a soil analysis was never done and that they assumed that the ground was stable since they were hitting so much caliche. If true, then they skipped a very important step because you can never just trust the visual look of ground soil. This is especially true in housing developments because so much of the top soil is disturbed, graded, redistributed, and fill is added. This makes it very difficult to find solid, settled ground.

One thing you might look into if the plaster gets chipped out and the gunite shell is exposed is having an independent analysis company come in a do some core samples of the gunite shell. They can take the cores to a lab and measure thickness and exact compressive strength. If the cement used during the shell forming process was somehow below industry accepted practice, then you have a solid case against the builder to hold them accountable. If the shell strength is correct, then there’s hope that stapling the cracks might help.

Sorry you’re going through this. It’s awful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesW
Concrete has good compressive strength, but poor tensile strength.

If we assume a concrete tensile strength of 500 psi, the Torque Lock product would be equivalent to about 10 square inches of concrete.

That's a section of concrete about 3.16" x 3.16".

If you have a wall section that is 4 feet high by 8" thick, that is 384 square inches.

So, a Torque Lock staple would, at best, add maybe 2.6% extra strength to the wall.

If the wall is already cracked, then the staple (and maybe some rebar) is pretty much all that is holding against more than 150,000 lbs of force.
 
If the ground settles, then the pool wants to follow.

The pool is going to crack or rotate to stay in contact with the ground.

You're not going to have a situation where the pool is suspended above the ground.

If the concrete is very strong, then the pool will rotate and one side will be higher than the other side.

If the concrete is weak, it will crack and one side will drop while the other side will stay where it is.

Or, you can get some rotation and some cracking.

1678811498795.png
 
JamesW said:
If the ground settles, then the pool wants to follow.

The pool is going to crack or rotate to stay in contact with the ground.

You're not going to have a situation where the pool is suspended above the ground.

If the concrete is very strong, then the pool will rotate and one side will be higher than the other side.

If the concrete is weak, it will crack and one side will drop while the other side will stay where it is.

Or, you can get some rotation and some cracking.

View attachment 477182
Click to expand...
So, let me preface this with 3 things: 1) My contact with the builder who I have dealt with all along has been great. 2) I have a tendency to not trust people when money is involved or mistakes are made. I’ve found it to be human nature for many to minimize their responsibility or to do the easy thing vs the right thing. 3) I realize this sucks and I’m trying to formulate a plan of action to ensure this is dealt with in the best manner.

All that beings said, here are today’s updates. Which is just: bucket test shows no leak. So their proposal is to wait another month barring any changes to wait for more settling before they address the issue.

He stated the proposal, which I don’t have exactly since it was on a phone call. To my ears, he made it sound like it’s “just settling” and “not structural” and they will come in, patch it up, and do a V-cut on the decking. I stated that I want to know how we know this isn’t worst case scenario.

Things he said: lifetime warranty on the shell. Three year warranty on (I forget) the plaster, I think?

Things I am going to do/ask (please add more):

1) Calling in to main office to have them write up their proposal/plan of action in a month. I want to see it on paper before they start.

2) Get specifics of the warranty. Yes, I should have this in my paperwork, but I can’t find it. Did they not give it to me? Don’t know. Feeling stupid at the moment tho.

3) Ask office if a soil sample was done.

4) Start monitoring if pool is level by taking weekly measurements at specific locations.

Things I’m considering:

Having an independent person to take sample of the gunite. Also, maybe have independent person look at this whole situation and have their proposal. I want to see if someone who doesn’t have a financial interest in my pool has the same opinion as the builder. If they don’t, I’m unsure of how to ensure my builder does what is right - I think that is my biggest fear. There is nothing I can do about what has happened, but I want to ensure that the best plan of action is taken and I worry they won’t since going back to human nature.

Open to thoughts, ideas, opinions. I know you’ve provided lots of time/info already. I appreciate it.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply