New pool owner, can I do this?

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Texas Splash said:
That item you described sounds like a check valve (spring type). It's supposed to keep water from flowing backwards to the pool to prevent losing prime to the pump. If it's not opening properly it could impede water flow on its way to the pump.
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yeah that makes sense ... except water is never getting to it, at least not that I can tell by sound or feel. I removed it today and then turned the pump on but I realize that there is then no suction to pull water to that point, right? so that move was kinda pointless I guess.
 
You're correct. :) If you open a seal open or cover then there's no way to maintain suction. But when you look closely through the check valve lid (I have one too), you should be able to see water flowing and the flap moving up out of the way as the water flows towards the pump .... IF it is indeed being pulled to the pump. By chance have you also inspected between the wet end (basket) and dry end (motor) of the pump for an air leak? There's a seal plate that should keep things water/air tight. If it was bad I'd suspect you would see water dripping from the middle section of the pump assembly, but I thought I'd put that out there anyways since you've been going through this all day.
 
There is no water moving into or thru the check valve at all, the flapper does not move.

I have not checked between the wet and dry end. Where exactly is that seal plate? And no, there has not been any water dripping anywhere around the pump motor, lines, valves, etc with the pump running .. none.
 
This is very odd. In the pics, I see your pump, check valve, two ball valves (skimmer and MD) and that should be it. You've acknowledged that water can indeed be seen flowing via garden hose from the pump basket to the poolside skimmer (or the other way around). So there doesn't appear to be any blockage on the skimmer line. I can only see two options from here:
1 - Try to do a pressure test on the skimmer line (just that one for now) to see if it holds pressure to rule-out a leak
2 - Something about your pump simply is not pulling water (impeller, diffuser, something).

I'm not aware of any specific troubleshooting to try on the pump at this point except perhaps fill the pump basket with water again to include as much of the suction line as possible. The check valve, if operating properly should prevent water from dropping. Install the basket lit and turn-in the pump with a full basket of water. It should get sucked into the pump right away. If not, then your pump would appear to be the culprit, but we could call-in some other pool hydraulic experts to validate.

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And to be sure, you have inspected (with power off) the pump impeller area to ensure nothing has it wrapped-up, tangled, etc) right? You already confirmed the multiport valve on your filter in in the filter position. Maybe try changing to backwash or rinse if the other things don't work?
 
I have done your suggestion in paragraph two several times and each time the water is immediately and quickly sucked into the pump .... there is then an inch or two of water left in the bottom of the basket that just sits there, no bubbles, etc. And no water at all coming into the basket from the suction line.

I have tried to run a backwash but nothing happens ... have not tried it on rinse. Wasnt sure how any of that on the filter would affect water coming into the pump itself so I didnt fool with that too much.

I have not closely inspected the impeller, should I do that next? If so, how do I do that?
Also, how do I do a pressure test on the skimmer line?

Thanks so much for you continued help ... I know we'll figure it out!
 
Well, if the water in the basket continues to get pulled out of the pump right away, then the impeller/diffuser is probably fine. Normally we just look in there and touch it with our fingers to ensure it's not stuck or something. But it sounds like it's okay. A pressure test on the line could be done in various (creative) ways - water, air, or both. Trying to seal one end long enough to apply pressure from the other end for a few minutes to see if there's a drop in pressure indicating a leak. You mentioned the ball valves were really hard to move. I wonder if something is wrong with either of those (or both). Ball valves are not the number 1 choice for pool repairs. Wouldn't it be something if those things were the culprit? Although you did say some water was able to flow with the hose. :confused: This problem will tap into the OCD portion of my personality tonight :brickwall: but I may have to give my mind a break and start fresh in the am to see if I'm leaving something out. I may also tag another person or two to see if they have a trick up their sleeve I may have missed. Seems like we're running out of options. But I want to see this one resolved. We'll keep working it and eventually crack the code on this.

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By the way, did we ever discuss .... is there an elevation change from the poolside skimmer to your equipment pad ( up or down)?
 
Yeah I hear ya on the OCD part, trust me. And to be clear, I removed the lid from the check valve and ran the water hose as far into the main suction line as possible with a towel stuffed in there, turned the water on and soon saw water coming into the skimmer basket.

Yes, those ball valves are BRUTALLY hard to turn ... in fact, if you look closely you can see I broke off one side of the MD turn valve, trying to turn it. But then how would those be affecting the water flow? Unless you're saying perhaps only the turn knob is moving and not the actual inner valve. And FYI, they were both left in the 'open' position all winter - the previous owner said he never touched those at all. (MD is left halfway open for safety with the kids, per previous owner)

Elevation change: yes, slightly uphill (I'd say 4-6") from skimmer to pad.
 
Okay, elevation should not be an issue. When you say during the water/towel test, the water flowed from the check valve backwards toward the Poolside skimmer correct? So we can be assured of no blockage. Those ball valves.. Humm. Before you go tearing those apart, I would want to be absolutely sure. Here's a thought if you get totally fed-up....

You could buy an extra bit of PVC and a union fitting. Disconnect the line going into the pump basket so that basically you've just severed all connection to the skimmer and MD. Then connect this new above-ground PVC line to the entrance of the pool basket and run it straight into the pool. Just like a big straw. You KNOW there's no leak, no valves, no interruptions, so you can see for sure if the pump can pull water. I know it means a few bucks of materials and a little time, but you've been at it so much today, this might at least give you some peace of mind or narrow-down your search.
 
Interesting thought on the PVC 'straw' idea ... let me sleep on that.

Yes, water flowed from the check valve backwards into the poolside skimmer ... prior to this there was no motion whatsoever in the skimmer basket... 5 seconds after I put the water in the check valve opening, water started to move into the skimmer (my wife was there watching, I didnt move that fast, ha!) ... I walked over to see it for myself and sure enough there was clearly water coming into the skimmer, so there definitely does not seem to be a clog.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that the pump is not creating suction ... right? Somehow, some way.
 
Yeah, unless something weird happened during the winter off-season with that pump (certainly possible), that's all I can figure. But some folks do use the PVC method to check even when they have good water flow, but just too many bubbles in the pump basket to rule-out an air leak underground. Very odd situation you have there. I'm going to start fresh on this thread tomorrow and we can compare ideas to see what could be done next. :)
 

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Texas, I'm gonna stop by Lowes tomorrow morning and get the PVC and union fitting .... anything else I need? And do I need a specific type of union fitting? I've never bought one before, we live 30 minutes from Lowes so I dont wanna make a 2nd trip if I can help it :)
 
Mainly you'll want to know what size (diameter) pump opening you have for that union. While those unions at HD/Lowes aren't ideal for long-term use, you're just testing, so it should be okay. And of course for any other connections ... PVC glue. :)
 
Okay. I'm hoping I can get flexible PVC because I dont have a straight shot to the pool, would have to use an elbow (more work). I measured the existing PVC and it looks to be 1.5" ... does that seem right? It's tough to measure because of the angle and spacing, I dont want move the piping too much. Oh and by the way, I'll also be bypassing the check valve, I assume that's okay. I'll be running my PVC directly into the side of the pump near the strainer basket.

The previous owner stopped by this morning and he's just as stumped as we are.
 
I see you said that both valves are very hard to turn. Could be that the suction valve is broken and not actually turning the valve itself but only the handle is moving or that you have trash in the valve internally causing the restriction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Update: I ran a PVC directly from the pump into the pool, still no suction at all ... no change. What should I do next? Disassemble the pump to look for clogs, etc?

So to recap, my suction lines seem to be clear as I can send water manually from the pump to the skimmer basket. I'm getting no pressure at all on my filter gauge ... no water at all into my check valve or strainer basket, regardless of the filter setting (rinse, waste, backwash, filter, etc).
 

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