One month after our new pool was done and I’m disappointed with how the plaster turned out and I’m not sure what to do. The plaster is Aruba sky quartz. There is all this white stuff as you can see in the pictures. I brushed it 2-3 times a day as instructed. My water chemistry is all good per the values given in pool math. I talked to builder and he was able to scrub some off with what I think was a scotch bright pad. He mentioned that since it was cold they day they did the plaster (ours was the second pool they did that day so ours was done in the afternoon) they had to add extra calcium? To the mix so it would harden. He mentioned doing a light acid wash to see if that took it away. Anyway not sure what to do.
New pool One month later disappointed with plaster
- Thread starter Cyclist7531
- Start date
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The plaster applicator added too much calcium chloride to the mix. What you have is white spotting. See this thread by our plaster expert -
www.troublefreepool.com
An acid wash will not fix the problem. Either your PB owes you some money back or they have to chip out and redo the plaster. This not something that can be fixed with water chemistry.
White Spotting of New Plaster Pools
The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service...
www.troublefreepool.com
An acid wash will not fix the problem. Either your PB owes you some money back or they have to chip out and redo the plaster. This not something that can be fixed with water chemistry.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If your willing to go the distance with the PB, do your research and show him what’s wrong. He already admitted the plasterer used too much CC in the plaster mix and probably did the plaster job on a day when the weather wasn’t right. Ask him to make it right. If he balks, inform him that you want a rep from the NPC to come out and evaluate. Do everything you can to document the problems and proposed resolutions and get the state’s contractor licensing board involved. Small claims court is your last option.
Doing pool builds, especially critical phases like the plaster application, is very tricky in the winter. It would have been better to simply delay the plaster until the weather warmed up.
Doing pool builds, especially critical phases like the plaster application, is very tricky in the winter. It would have been better to simply delay the plaster until the weather warmed up.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
White spotted areas tend to be lower in terms of compressive strength as compared to unadulterated plaster. So those areas can become “mushier” over time. It’s not something you can feel by hand but, if you whacked it with a hammer and chisel, those white areas would fracture and disintegrate far easier. Structurally they are ok, they are just unsightly in appearance.
The plaster applicator added too much calcium chloride to the mix. What you have is white spotting. See this thread by our plaster expert -
White Spotting of New Plaster Pools
The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service...
An acid wash will not fix the problem. Either your PB owes you some money back or they have to chip out and redo the plaster. This not something that can be fixed with water chemistry.
The PB stated that he was able to sand away some of the areas of discoloration. From what I remember of OnBalance's posts, whitespotting cannot be sanded or acid-washed away, is that incorrect?
He sanded one little area and it seemed to scrub off some of the white stuff. What was left was a darker blue finish. We’re talking about a tiny area. The Pb said what I have is due to the plaster dust reattaching and forming/adhereing to the surface. As noted above I was religious about brushing the plaster 2-3 times a day. He said to try a stainless brush but that has had no effect.
Question: will a replaster address this issue or are we talking about having all the plaster chipped out and plastered again?
Question: will a replaster address this issue or are we talking about having all the plaster chipped out and plastered again?
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If the white streaks are raised above the rest of the surface and have a rougher texture than the rest of the area, then you could have calcium scale as opposed to white spotting. You could try to use Jack’s Magic stain ID kit to see if it is calcium scale as one of the tests is for mineral scaling. If the test were positive and the plaster color restored on the test area, then you could consider either the full blown scale removal protocol from Jack’s Magic or do a zero alkalinity treatment. Either of those would remove the calcium. Whether or not the color is fully restored would remain to be seen.
Thanks. The Pb is supposed to come and attempt what is probably what you described as he is going to lower the alkalinity and ph. If that doesn’t work and it is white spotting will a replaster address the issue? My understanding of a replaster is they only chip out a section below the waterline tile and plaster over the remaining existing plaster so my concern is if I push for a replaster will I have a reoccurrence if the issue through the new plaster assuming of course it’s done correctly?
So I felt the white areas and there are some white specks that are raised and do come off however there are other areas -those that are more streaks and not specks- that feel smooth like the plaster.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What you describe is a “skim coat” not a replaster. Replastering would be chipping out the entire pool and then redoing the plaster completely. A skim coat is not what you want because it’s a “bandaid” fix. Obviously the PB/plasterer wants to do a skim coat because it’s quick and cheap.
Unfortunately this is going to be one of those situations where you’re going to have to negotiate with the PB. I doubt he’s going to want to eat the whole bill on a chip out and replaster but you can broach the subject. At the very most you might consider offering to pay for the chip out and removal of the old plaster and ask the PB to pay for the new plaster job. But I would not offer that upfront.
If things go south and you find yourself at odds with the PB, then you’ll need to consider legal options. One thing you’ll need to do is have an independent firm do a failure analysis of the plaster in those white spots. A small core sample can be taken and analyzed for calcium chloride content. If you can show physical proof that too much CC was used, then you have solid case against the PB.
Let’s hope the PB regards his reputation enough to make right on the situation rather than try to roll you.
Also not only do we have issue with the white stuff but where they laid the hoses to fill the pool left large dark areas in the bottom of the pool which I assume were caused by the water coming out of the hose. What they did was tape a towel to the end of the hose I guess to diffuse the stream of water. The whole thing looks horrible. My wife and I are sick over this whole thing especially foreseeing a possible drawn out battle. We’ve been vigilant about brushing and checking the water chemistry. Just today my values using the tf-100 were as shown below. I’m confident it’s nothing we created but never having a pool before we thought we followed things to the letter and relied on the builder to things correctly. I guess when the Pb comes by we’ll lay it all out and see what he says.
FC=4
PH=7.6
TA=100
CH=275
CYA=30
CSI=-0.24
Water temp=51
FC=4
PH=7.6
TA=100
CH=275
CYA=30
CSI=-0.24
Water temp=51
Attachments
- May 23, 2015
- 24,412
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
can you please measure the pH, TA and CH of your fill water?
Those hose marks look terrible. You have every right to feel disappointed as that is just sloppy work. The initial fill should have started off gently and very diffuse at first. And hoses should have been moved around often to avoid water jetting against one small area. People attach empty soda bottles or cut pool noodles to go around the hose so that it floats when filling.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,859
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Matt has stolen most of my thunder, as I often tell the tale of a similar situation and how I resolved it with the contractor. I just want to add: a pool finish has a lifespan. The original finish degrades and wears off over time. Sanding and acid washing removes a layer of the finish (that's how the stains and discolorations are removed, not magically, not chemically, but by getting physically removed with the layer of removed finish). So even if the sanding or acid washing somehow restores the aesthetics of the finish to your satisfaction, and you can somehow overlook the material's integrity issue, you're going to end up with less plaster, and that means less longevity. Something for you to decide on, in terms of acceptability, and something for you and the PB to account for during negotiations. You didn't get what you paid for, a fix could get you even less. That is the PB's liability, not yours...
Short version: I wouldn't accept anything less than a full chip out and full replacement. I went to battle with the contractor. It was a lot of stress. It took many months. I used the contractor's board as my primary ammo, and ended up winning a new finish. Was it worth it? During, it was touch and go. After, now, yes.
Short version: I wouldn't accept anything less than a full chip out and full replacement. I went to battle with the contractor. It was a lot of stress. It took many months. I used the contractor's board as my primary ammo, and ended up winning a new finish. Was it worth it? During, it was touch and go. After, now, yes.
When I get home today I’ll get the numbers on my fill water. As for the fill they just taped a towel around the end of the hose and pretty much was full flow from the outset. Nothing was added to make the hose float. I haven’t heard back from the Pb as to when he will be by. When he comes I’m going to discuss all of this with him. I really want a full chip out and replaster but I’m sure all he wants to do at first is dump a couple gallons of acid in
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,859
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
If this goes south, you'll appreciate what Kim advised earlier: everything in writing. Meetings at the pool are a necessary evil, but if you're not communicating exclusively in writing, you should do one or both: have a third person present, a witness. Non-spouse, non-relative is best. Whether that can happen or not, don't just "shoot the stuff" with the contractor. Outline your questions and concerns before hand. Be methodical. Be prepared. Take notes during the conversation. And/or have your third party do that. That can be a bit counter-productive, and can be off-putting, but, IMO, you're accomplishing two very important things: you're accurately tracking, in real time, what is being asked and answered (which you won't be able to do comprehensively even a few minutes after he leaves), and you're sending a very clear message that you're not messing around, that you're not going to get pushed around, and that you're gathering evidence.
Again, this can be off-putting, but that's my MO. Not everybody agrees with that, or has the stomach for it, but it was absolutely instrumental in how I won my new finish. After the first couple conversations with my contractor went nowhere, I ceased all verbal communication with him and insisted on everything in writing. I used certified mail. He did too. On several occasions he incriminated himself (these guys are generally not to savvy when it comes to this stuff), all in writing, all certified. He continued to stall and make up excuses. I had the pool repaired by another contractor and then I ended up just turning over all the letters to the contractor's board. A few months later, I got one last certified letter that included a check for the cost of the entire repair...
Again, this can be off-putting, but that's my MO. Not everybody agrees with that, or has the stomach for it, but it was absolutely instrumental in how I won my new finish. After the first couple conversations with my contractor went nowhere, I ceased all verbal communication with him and insisted on everything in writing. I used certified mail. He did too. On several occasions he incriminated himself (these guys are generally not to savvy when it comes to this stuff), all in writing, all certified. He continued to stall and make up excuses. I had the pool repaired by another contractor and then I ended up just turning over all the letters to the contractor's board. A few months later, I got one last certified letter that included a check for the cost of the entire repair...
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Here is the values of my fill water
PH-6.9
TA-90
CH-100
Dirk, thanks for the advice. After first pointing the issue out while he was at the house to replace a faulty pump we’ve only exchanged texts. I was planning on sending another text to state additional concerns with doing the acid bath. I think I’ll draft all my questions and when he’s here see if my neighbor can be present. I may also follow up with a certified letter expressing our dissatisfaction and what we think the resolution should be.
if I may ask how long did you wait before having it repaired by another company? I was thinking about getting a quote just to have that number on my pocket
PH-6.9
TA-90
CH-100
Dirk, thanks for the advice. After first pointing the issue out while he was at the house to replace a faulty pump we’ve only exchanged texts. I was planning on sending another text to state additional concerns with doing the acid bath. I think I’ll draft all my questions and when he’s here see if my neighbor can be present. I may also follow up with a certified letter expressing our dissatisfaction and what we think the resolution should be.
if I may ask how long did you wait before having it repaired by another company? I was thinking about getting a quote just to have that number on my pocket
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