New Plaster

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Hi All, our 12 year old pool was freshly re-plastered today. The plaster company used the bicarb startup process which is what sold me on them but I’m not sure they did the process correctly. They had the right equipment but after doing the calculations they added about 60 lbs. of Calcium Chloride. I thought it was supposed to be Sodium Bicarbonate. is this going to be a problem?? I didn’t actually see them pour it into the barrel but they left the empty bag behind. Also, the chemical they added, whatever it was, is no longer in the barrel it’s on the bottom of the deep end. It’s not supposed to leave the barrel that quick is it? Isn’t it supposed to slowly mix with the fill water? I’ve attached a pic showing what’s going on. If they did use the calcium chloride what is going to happen to my plaster assuming it’s highly concentrated at the bottom of my deep end now. I just want to kick myself for not paying closer attention but I had to take care of my grandson today at the last minute. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[ajw22]

This is the bicarb startup process written up by @onBalance

In there he says:

If the combined levels of the alkalinity and the calcium hardness of the fill water is 500 ppm or higher, and the pH is between 7.2 and 8.2, then no addition of sodium bicarbonate is necessary. Just fill with that water - it is already perfect for new plaster pools.

So just raising your CH may be adequate.

Let's see what he says...

A Bicarb Start-up guide for TFP members

It is an unfortunate fact that most tap water used to fill swimming pools is often soft, aggressive, and somewhat harmful to a new plaster surface. Therefore, in order to not damage a new plaster surface, the tap water needs to be “balanced” (meaning for new plaster, the CSI should be at least...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[convan23]

Based on the logo on that bucket, they may be doing the orenda startup (google it), which involves adding a bunch of calcium and their SC1000 scale and metal control solution.

It’s not a bad process, and shares some principals with the bicarb startup, but achieved in a different way.

Keep a close eye on pH. Calcium will raise pH. If they are doing orenda, they should’ve added acid to the barrel to counteract the pH shift of the calcium.

 

[convan23]

Also, the chemical they added, whatever it was, is no longer in the barrel it’s on the bottom of the deep end.

I would think you’d be fine to brush that around so it dissolves fully into the water.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Based on the logo on that bucket, they may be doing the orenda startup (google it), which involves adding a bunch of calcium and their SC1000 scale and metal control solution.

It’s not a bad process, and shares some principals with the bicarb startup, but achieved in a different way.

Keep a close eye on pH. Calcium will raise pH. If they are doing orenda, they should’ve added acid to the barrel to counteract the pH shift of the calcium.

Thanks convan23, you are correct. With the Orenda startup they do use calcium chloride. The tech was calling it the bicarb startup so that’s what caused the confusion on my part because I was thinking it was the OnBalance bicarb startup. I checked the chemicals last night and they were actually pretty good with a CSI of -0.03 but the ph was 6.8. I’m sure the ph is going to rise though so I’ll keep an eye on it. I also stirred the pile of calcium chloride that was on the bottom and there was no visual evidence of any issues. Thanks again!

 

[onBalance]

Keep brushing the bottom of the pool, and of course, everywhere else. The calcium should dissolve. Then do another test of the calcium hardness. Let's see what that ends up being.
I am curious what the readings (pH, TA, CH) of your tap water are.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Keep brushing the bottom of the pool, and of course, everywhere else. The calcium should dissolve. Then do another test of the calcium hardness. Let's see what that ends up being.
I am curious what the readings (pH, TA, CH) of your tap water are.

The Orenda barrel stopped the fill today at 8:00 am. I have been brushing the calcium to mix it in because the equipment won’t be started by them until later today. They will also balance the water and brush it. The water is fairly clear with a little bit of haze in the deep end. I ran the chem tests just now and the numbers are close (slightly aggressive)except chlorine since nothing has been added. Here are my pool numbers.

CL 0.5
pH 7.2
TA 100
CH 275
Temp. 60
CSI -0.41
BTW, it is a French Grey QuartzScapes plaster.

Tap Water:
pH 7.6 - 7.7
TA 100
CH 100

I know for warranty purposes ( for what it’s worth) I will need to follow their recommendations but do I need to target any specific CSI? All in all do you think it’s a good start for the plaster? Thanks!

 

[onBalance]

The Orenda startup is also based on having a slightly positive LSI (or CSI), same as the onBalance Bicarb startup. Therefore, at this point, I suggest (it would be best) adding enough sodium bicarbonate to raise the TA to 125 ppm (the calcium level of 275 ppm is high enough at this point), which should also raise the pH somewhat, perhaps to 7.6. That would achieve a combined TA and CH of at least 400 ppm (the minimum total amount for the startup time period), and a CSI (LSI) slightly positive. That would help stop any plaster dust issues if present, and buffer the pH adequately against any calcium hydroxide being dissolved from the plaster. No need to add more calcium chloride. After three weeks, the alkalinity can be slowly lowered to below 100 ppm and/or where you decide to maintain it.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

The Orenda startup is also based on having a slightly positive LSI (or CSI), same as the onBalance Bicarb startup. Therefore, at this point, I suggest (it would be best) adding enough sodium bicarbonate to raise the TA to 125 ppm (the calcium level of 275 ppm is high enough at this point), which should also raise the pH somewhat, perhaps to 7.6. That would achieve a combined TA and CH of at least 400 ppm (the minimum total amount for the startup time period), and a CSI (LSI) slightly positive. That would help stop any plaster dust issues if present, and buffer the pH adequately against any calcium hydroxide being dissolved from the plaster. No need to add more calcium chloride. After three weeks, the alkalinity can be slowly lowered to below 100 ppm and/or where you decide to maintain it.

Thank you OnBalance. The pool company didn’t show up today but tomorrow I’m taking your advice, with or without them. I need to start moving some water. Much appreciated.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Of course, being it’s Saturday I can’t reach anybody at the pool company but I need help! My FC is zero. The plaster was finished on 4/5/22 and the fill was completed on 4/7. Today is 4/9. They did the start up on 4/8. He started all the equipment and checked the chems. The only thing he added was Cal Hypo but I don’t know how much. He also added 3 pucks to the skimmer. I’m afraid I will get algae real soon if I don’t act. I can’t wait for the pool company to “Maybe I’ll be back here Monday or Tuesday “. Here are todays numbers.

FC 0
CC 0
ph 7.6
TA 100
CH 375
CYA 0
Water Temp. 56

I know I need to add sanitizer. Is liquid chlorine good enough?
Is it okay to add stabilizer? I know it needs it but I don’t want to get in trouble with the company.
Also, should I bring my TA up a little more? onBalance said around 125 but that was when my CH was at 275. Thanks to all the great people at TFP who are willing to help people like me

 

[ajw22]

Each 32 oz of 10% liquid chlorine will give you 1 ppm of FC. You want to maintain 3 ppm of FC. So add 3/4 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine.

You can add stabilizer at day 4 for CYA 30. Use the sock method and DO NOT POUR IT IN YOUR SKIMMER the way the instructions on the package will tell you. Put it in a sock and suspend it in the water by a return. Do not allow the solid stabilizer to sit on the pool floor as it is a mild acid and can stain the plaster.

Your TA is close enough. Leave it alone.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Got it, thanks ajw22!

 

[crusemm]

I usually place brick on the pool ledge to hang over the pool 2-3 inches, then hang the sock off of that. This ensures that with no/low flow through the return, the sock does not sit ON the pool wall, and instead 3-4 inches away. Just my $.02

 

[ajw22]

I usually place brick on the pool ledge to hang over the pool 2-3 inches, then hang the sock off of that. This ensures that with no/low flow through the return, the sock does not sit ON the pool wall, and instead 3-4 inches away. Just my $.02

I run my pump 24/7 especially when trying to get CYA or salt dissolved. If you stop your pump you mostly stop the dissolving process.

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

You can add stabilizer at day 4 for CYA 30.

Would day 4 be from pool start up day or plaster finish day?

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Ok, something weird is happening. Got a case of 10% liquid chlorine and added .75 gal. as ajw22 suggested. No rise in chlorine so I added another .75 gal. and still nothing. 3 gallons liquid chlorine later I am reading .5 on the scale. I checked my tf100 on a drop of straight chlorine and full test tube of water and the tests seem to be working. The reagents were purchased last month so I don’t think it’s that. Where is my chlorine?? Since it’s dark now I’m going to add my last bottle of CL and check it in 1 hour to see if it registers. The only other thing I can think of is algae which I hope it isn’t but I don’t know what else it could be. Any suggestions???!!

 

[ajw22]

Would day 4 be from pool start up day or plaster finish day?

From day when pool is filled with water.

 

[ajw22]

The only other thing I can think of is algae which I hope it isn’t but I don’t know what else it could be. Any suggestions???!!

What is the date code on the chlorine bottles?

Where did you buy it?

How was it stored? You never want to buy LC that is stored outside int he sun and heat.

Liquid chlorine degrades with age and storage conditions. You may have gotten LC that has degraded to close to water.

Breakdown of Bleach Over Time by Storage Temp - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Mr. Muriaticacid]

Date code is 21238 which puts at August of last year I believe. I got it at Leslie’s cause it was close. Even if the chlorine is degraded don’t you think I would have got a bigger bump than .5 after adding 3 gallons? Should I go to Wally’s and look for something fresher??

 

[ajw22]

Date code is 21238 which puts at August of last year I believe. I got it at Leslie’s cause it was close. Even if the chlorine is degraded don’t you think I would have got a bigger bump than .5 after adding 3 gallons? Should I go to Wally’s and look for something fresher??

9 month old 10% LC would be about 3% LC depending on its storage temperature. That is almost the chlorine level tap water has from municipal water systems.

You should not buy LC older then 3 months. In 3 months about 1/3 of the chlorine may be lost.