New Plaster: Pine needles sticking

[Moonlightbamb]

The pool was replastered 6 days ago.
The calcium is low.
As per the bicarbonate startup method (though the installers didn't do the bicarbonate, have been raising the bicarbonate, with a goal of 150 -200 for the first month.
yesterday I added bicarbonate and calcium, only about 2 hours apart
The pool has pine needles that blow into it, some settle on the floor.
This morning when I brushed, the pine needles seemed to be cemented to the floor, they didn't brush off.
any advice? ( gently use a steel brush, which I've avoided up until now?)

Also with chemistry, there continues to be dust.
Yesterday, the chemistry analysis from the pool store was a little off, so that motivated the adjustment
it was pH 7.0 (after lowering the amount the pool store suggested, which seems a bit odd). this morning seems about 7.2
Alkalinity 100
Calcium H 100
no chlorine,
cyanuric acid 10 (non added)

26000 gallons
I added alkalinity to raise it to 125 last night
I added calcium , still working on this, should be about 150 though a bit hard to get an accurate reading. trying to get it above 200.
Added some cyanuric acid, it doesn't dissolve quickly, so did about 1/3 of what was needed to get above 30 ppm
Chlorine: 6 tabs, added 2/3 gal shock which brought it up .

Am thinking the calcium cemented the pine needles and I should scrape them out.
General Advice? Not positive giving higher alkalinity (sodium bicarbonate) should be done, but it seems like that preserves the plaster better while it cures. The plasterer was less than optimum instruction wise.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

How deep is your pool?

Yes, you want to pick out the pine needles. If you can get into the pool and reach them to pick them off the plaster would be best.

What startup guide are you using?

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

https://www.nptpool.com/pdf/npc-start-up-card-lsi.pdf

You are going the wrong way with your alkalinity.



By now you should have 3 ppm of chlorine in the pool.

You need to get your own test kit and not rely on inaccurate pool store tests. We recommend the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Moonlightbamb]

Correction:
Calcium hardness = 225

 

[Moonlightbamb]

Yes, I've seen this. there seem to be multiple approaches. It seemed like the higher alkalinity approach (keeping alkalinity high for the first month) made a tougher surface from the bicarbonate startup, and the dust keeps coming.
I suppose I could drop this approach and stick to the normal startup.

 

[Moonlightbamb]

Also, deepest is 8 feet

 

[ajw22]

If you are trying to do a bicarb startup then you need a good test kit to calculate the CSI and keep it in the +0.3 to +0.5 range.

Right now you seem to be doing neither startup method properly.

A Bicarb Start-up guide for TFP members

It is an unfortunate fact that most tap water used to fill swimming pools is often soft, aggressive, and somewhat harmful to a new plaster surface. Therefore, in order to not damage a new plaster surface, the tap water needs to be “balanced” (meaning for new plaster, the CSI should be at least...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Moonlightbamb]

I have a liquid test kit for alkalinity and PH
and test strips for others including calcium,
these tend to agree with the pool store
Agree I'm not getting it right... I think I'm just understanding and researching which is late. Thought the installer gave me what I needed, the pool store won't talk about it for liability purposes.
I read the bicard startup guide... this is what set me o that path. unfortunately the installer didn't do it from day one
ANYWAY:
the question is should I keep alkalinity high at this point.

Also, on pine: I'll go in, but they seem to need to be scraped out, it's not just picking them up. I guess I'll bring a rougher brush or pick and get them.

 

[ajw22]

At this point I would just manage your FC around 3 and your pH between 7.6 and 8.

Leave everything else alone until you get a good test kit. Right now you are in the dark about achieving what the bicarb startup is trying to accomplish.

 

[Moonlightbamb]

Ok, I'll get a test kit that includes CYA and Calcium (the only two I am using a strip for, the others are liquid tests and valid measurements). Also, the pool store results use liquid kids, and I believe are reliable.
FC, means free chlorine?

Aside from that, the question remains:
Is it worthwhile to keep the alkalinity higher for the first 30 days in terms of keeping the surface at low porosity and reducing calcium loss?
Also on the NPC startup card, they say keep Calcium Hardness above 150 (but not below what), then after 30 days below 200. not quite understanding this other than preventing scaling. both 150 and 200 seems low especially when calculating the CSI or Langalier index. So for now a range of 150 to what?

 

[ajw22]

Ok, I'll get a test kit that includes CYA and Calcium (the only two I am using a strip for, the others are liquid tests and valid measurements).

I doubt you have the FAS/DPD chlorine test which is required to follow TFP methods.

Also, the pool store results use liquid kids, and I believe are reliable.

We don't believe they are reliable and repeatable. It is not only the kit it is how it is being used.

FC, means free chlorine?

Yup

Aside from that, the question remains:
Is it worthwhile to keep the alkalinity higher for the first 30 days in terms of keeping the surface at low porosity and reducing calcium loss?

You are trying to mix methods which never works well. You need to choose the method you want to use and follow it.

The alkalinity does not do anything special. The secret sauce in the bicarb startup is maintaining the CSI at +0.3 to +0.5 from the initial water startup. That ship has already sailed for you.

Also on the NPC startup card, they say keep Calcium Hardness above 150 (but not below what), then after 30 days below 200. not quite understanding this other than preventing scaling. both 150 and 200 seems low especially when calculating the CSI or Langalier index. So for now a range of 150 to what?

We recommend after the initial startup period you transition to TFP methods and recommended levels.

We don't recommend mixing pool care methods.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[SoDel]

Ok, I'll get a test kit that includes CYA and Calcium (the only two I am using a strip for, the others are liquid tests and valid measurements). Also, the pool store results use liquid kids, and I believe are reliable.
FC, means free chlorine?

Aside from that, the question remains:
Is it worthwhile to keep the alkalinity higher for the first 30 days in terms of keeping the surface at low porosity and reducing calcium loss?
Also on the NPC startup card, they say keep Calcium Hardness above 150 (but not below what), then after 30 days below 200. not quite understanding this other than preventing scaling. both 150 and 200 seems low especially when calculating the CSI or Langalier index. So for now a range of 150 to what?

If you are trying to do a bicarb startup then you need a good test kit to calculate the CSI and keep it in the +0.3 to +0.5 range.

Right now you seem to be doing neither startup method properly.

A Bicarb Start-up guide for TFP members

It is an unfortunate fact that most tap water used to fill swimming pools is often soft, aggressive, and somewhat harmful to a new plaster surface. Therefore, in order to not damage a new plaster surface, the tap water needs to be “balanced” (meaning for new plaster, the CSI should be at least...

www.troublefreepool.com

By now you should have 3 ppm of chlorine in the pool.

You need to get your own test kit and not rely on inaccurate pool store tests. We recommend the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

@ajw22 answered your questions. Likely seems like a lot of info at once but slow down for a second, immediately order one of the recommended kits, and you’ll have good data to go on which is critical.