New owner build, need help with plumbing

[shallowbay]

I'm doing an OB and have finalized my plans and hope to start digging soon. I've been working on the plumbing diagram and could use some help. Here's some specs on the pool -

• Surface area: 420 sqft
• Perimeter: 96 linear feet
• Water Depths: 3’9” x 5’9”
• Tanning Ledge Depth: 6”
• Total Pool Water Capacity: 13,200 Gallons
• Pool Interior Dimensions: 16’ x 32’
• Spa Dimensions: 7’ x 8’

Equipment:

• Pentair “Intellicenter” Automation System (which model?)
• Pentair 520 Cartridge Filter
• Pentair Intelliflo3 3HPVariable Speed Pump
• Pentair “Master Temp” 400,000 BTU
• IC40 Salt Water Generator
• 2 HP Polaris Air Blower

Attached is the plumbing diagram. Please let me know if there is anything I missed.

One specific question I have is around the bubbler on the tanning ledge. Should I plumb this to be another pool return to move the water on the shelf? The only concern is that I may not want the bubbler on every time the pool is circulating. Is there a better way to plumb this for more control?

Thanks in advance for all your help and input! This forum has been a great resource.

 

[HermanTX]

Couple of thoughts on teh plumbing
Run a separate line from the pad to the bubbler. Have a 2-way valve on the line at the pad to control it on or off as needed.
The 2 independent skimmer lines and the pool main drain line could be handled by each line having 2-way valve on the pool side of the 3-way valve. This way each of the lines can be set to balance the suction.

 

[shallowbay]

Thanks, this makes sense. Couple of follow up questions:

Should the pool returns be done in a completed loop or not a big deal?
Where does the air blower for the spa get plumbed into?
I want to go with Pentair Intellicenter and know they have several models but some look like overkill for my setup. Which model do you recommend for my setup?

 

[markdpratt]

Being Houston, you may want to consider at least plumbing for a chiller and leaving space on your equipment pad for the same.
Good luck.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

A few thoughts.

 

[pjt]

Water Depths: 3’9” x 5’9”

I would recommend 4' for the shallow end. 5'9" is an awkward depth since it's too shallow for diving, but too deep for people to stand. I would suggest 5' or commit to a true deep end.

• Pentair “Intellicenter” Automation System (which model?)
• Pentair 520 Cartridge Filter
• Pentair Intelliflo3 3HPVariable Speed Pump
• Pentair “Master Temp” 400,000 BTU
• IC40 Salt Water Generator

All this equipment is excellent. Get the IntelliCenter load center with built in SWCG transformer. Install an external bypass on the heater. Are you planning on a chiller?

For the plumbing diagram, I would upsize the spa pipes to 3". Strive for 12"-18" of straight pipe before the SWCG. Pool main drain is optional (I personally wouldn't bother with it).

Use three way diverter valves on the suction side so it's impossible to deadhead the pump. Do not use any ball valves. Only use high quality diverter valves (Jandy Never Lube or Pentair). You can optionally install a three way diverter valve between the pump and filter if you wanted to vacuum to waste.

 

[HermanTX]

Should the pool returns be done in a completed loop or not a big deal?
Where does the air blower for the spa get plumbed into?

I have been searching for a thread on TFP that shows 3-4 ways for pool returns to be plumbed. The most common is a loop but there are variations. Maybe @AQUA~HOLICS can advise or may have that link that shows the various plumbing designs for pool returns.

The air blower is connected to the loop that is above the spa (water) loop.

 

[HermanTX]

I want to go with Pentair Intellicenter and know they have several models but some look like overkill for my setup. Which model do you recommend for my setup?

See the link at Polytec Pools. This IntelliCenter is a kit of IC with load center, 2 valves for spa and pool modes and a SWCG. It is best to buy a package

Pentair IntelliCenter i8PSIC40 Kit - Pool and Spa with Load Center and IC40

 

[shallowbay]

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful.

Aqua -
The top left return doesn't make a 90, not sure why it's shown like that
Note 9 just says that's it's an all tile spillway
I see you suggest 2 returns on the ledge, I was originally thinking the bubbler could serve as the return. Probably best to plumb the bubbler separately since I may not want it on all the time
Doesn't the overfill line connect to the skimmer?
For auto-fill, I was planning on tying it into my sprinkler system and controlling with app (Rachio). Any concerns with this?
I think I'm going to stick with only 6 spa jets, we're really not looking for the therapeutic aspect, just hot water with some jets.

Other comments:
I do have young kids so want them to be able to cannonball in, not necessarily dive, what is considered a true deep end? 6 feet?
For the spa pipes, are you saying to make both the suction and returns all 3"?
Thanks for sending the Intellicenter model, noted!

Attached is the revised plan

 

[pjt]

Doesn't the overfill line connect to the skimmer?

Some do. Many overflow drains are embedded in the waterline tile. If you go the latter route, I'd suggest a design like this, which allows the water level to drift above the the halfway point of the tile (allowing you to harvest more rain water).

For auto-fill, I was planning on tying it into my sprinkler system and controlling with app (Rachio). Any concerns with this?

That's my exact setup. I have a separate line and PVB for the pool fill that's controlled by my Rachio. Works beautifully.

what is considered a true deep end? 6 feet?

https://www.srsmith.com/media/47241/06-052ansi-standard.pdf

For the spa pipes, are you saying to make both the suction and returns all 3"?

Yes.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

The picture provided above of the over flow inlet is from one of my jobs but is the only type that I have installed. This type of drain pipe is then plumbed to a drain pipe to exit the area (see picture provided). Yes the skimmer has a dedicated outlet but is not a 3” outlet like the one in the picture.

Return lines on the reef step give the surface water a direction, bubblers do not and actually trap surface debris from exiting the area properly. Typically bubblers are on a separate pump so not to run continuously when the main pump runs. The bubbler can be operated with a actuator on the main pump plumbing.

The auto fill system I am familiar with does not need to be monitored or set to a schedule.

Depth of pools are owner specific, I see most often 7’ 6” only due to a standard steel plan is typically only needed until it reaches 8’ or deeper. Price wise, to add 1’ or 2’ is minimal.

I see looped systems for plumbing, if it cannot be achieved then the plumber will run a minimum of 18” of dead run past the last Tee to achieve back pressure.

 

[ajw22]

I would not put returns close to skimmers. Doing so will just suck the return water right back into the skimmer and not have the skimmer pull much water from the rest of the pool.

You want skimmers and returns as far away as possible to get a good water circulation across the pool.

Are the skimmers positioned into the prevailing winds?

 

[shallowbay]

thanks for sending the overflow pipe, makes sense.

yes, the skimmers are positioned corrrectly for the wind and I will make sure the returns are not plumbed too close.

 

[shallowbay]

Another question came up regarding the spa plumbing. Do I need a dedicated "common" return in the spa or can I just use the 6 spa jets as returns?

 

[ajw22]

Another question came up regarding the spa plumbing. Do I need a dedicated "common" return in the spa or can I just use the 6 spa jets as returns?

Where would the other end of the common return be connected to?

 

[shallowbay]

good question. The plumber I talked to asked me about this. Said I either need a dedicated common return or an accuator to control the return through the 6 spa jets. I believe the latter is how the plumbing diagram is shown.

I guess the question is when in pool mode, how will water be circulated and refreshed in the spa? Would this be done by scheduling spillway mode to run a couple of times a day?

 

[ajw22]

good question. The plumber I talked to asked me about this. Said I either need a dedicated common return or an accuator to control the return through the 6 spa jets. I believe the latter is how the plumbing diagram is shown.

I guess the question is when in pool mode, how will water be circulated and refreshed in the spa? Would this be done by scheduling spillway mode to run a couple of times a day?

Most plumbers are clueless about automation and things like SPILLOVER modes.

You don’t need a common line if you have the IntelliCenter run the spillover to refresh the spa water twice a day.

If the common line is put in it should have a 2-way diverter on it so it can be shut off when you rely on the IntelliCenter SPILLOVER mode. And it will be shut off most of the time.