New Here. Went to Leslie's and I have questions about phosphates.

[SLee]

I go to Leslie's because they have the cheapest liquid chlorine. I brought a pool sample to the store because I wanted to test my pool testing kit.

I look at the results and the associate starts telling me about reducing my phosphate level which is about 2 PPM (which they measure at 2,000+ PPB because it sounds alarming) and I listen to him for a few minutes.

Then I quietly tell him that I used to work in the pool industry and ask him if he wants to know a pool secret that his boss probably wouldn't want him sharing with anyone else, but it results in silky smooth, sparking clear, soft pool water. He looks intrigued.

I tell him that the secret is to maintain about 2,000 to 3,000 PPB of phosphates, however don't tell anyone because a person who maintains a high level of phosphates must stay on top of the chlorine and stabilizer, keeping them perfectly balanced to avoid an algae bloom. But if anyone can do it, they will have resort quality pool water. Then I said the risk is so worth it.

Sure, I made it sound dangerous, but I really didn't want to cause any drama between him and the other associates or managers. However, the look of bewilderment and amazement on his face was amazing. He said he will look it up online when he is done with work, but doesn't want to get into trouble.

I thanked him and got my chlorine. It was a fun experience, however I have read somewhere that phosphates can make the water softer so I wasn't really lying. It was a good experience.

Edit: Oh, I forgot my question to the community about phosphates:
What do you say to people when they start talking about phosphates?

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Ha! Good story ------- and as you know, phosphates are of no significance for nearly all pools.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[cowboycasey]

Welcome to TFP

 

[Homebrewale]

Ask if you can filter them so you can use them to clean the paint on your walls in the kitchen.

 

[apellegrino8]

If I understand this right....phosphates are food for algae, so why have them in the pool even thought they "don't matter"? It just doesn't make sense to me to have them in there if they do more harm then good if the circumstances call for them to be in effect.

 

[Newdude]

If I understand this right....phosphates are food for algae, so why have them in the pool even thought they "don't matter"? It just doesn't make sense to me to have them in there if they do more harm then good if the circumstances call for them to be in effect.

You understand it right. You also understand that Petco has aisles and aisles of dog food and it has never once made a dog appear to eat it all. If the doors stay locked, no dogs can enter and the food stays harmlessly on the shelves.

Keep the doors locked with a proper FC as per the FC/CYA Levels and the algae will never enter the store.

 

[apellegrino8]

You understand it right. You also understand that Petco has aisles and aisles of dog food and it has never once made a dog appear to eat it all. If the doors stay locked, no dogs can enter and the food stays harmlessly on the shelves.

Keep the doors locked with a proper FC as per the FC/CYA Levels and the algae will never enter the store.

I get that, that is basically everyone's argument when there is a discussion about it.

Would you keep a thorn bush inside your house? I mean, you can be as careful as you need to be to not hit it, but you get drunk and let your guard down and walk into it then you are going to have problems. Why not just keep the thorn bush outside? The argument mostly comes up with new pool users that are still learning. It's easy for someone that knows chemicals and balances to tell someone to disregard the phosphates. But for someone new who can't keep up or maintain levels, that 3000 reading at leslies they get will bit them in the........am I wrong on that? I feel like the $50 a season for NoPhos is well worth it to keep that number as low as possible. I use the AquaCheck phosphate test kit, I keep mine at >200 on their chart. My brother who is a newbie pool guy, I tested his water and he was in the <2000 mark and his water is turning green because he doesn't understand the chemistry and balance like I do.

 

[mknauss]

If you wish to reduce phosphates in your water, do it. Once a year and use a quality remover, not the Leslies stuff. Continual use of it just plugs up your filters as it is a cheap clarifier too.
Use SeaKlear or Orenda removers.

 

[Newdude]

The argument mostly comes up with new pool users that are still learning. It's easy for someone that knows chemicals and balances to tell someone to disregard the phosphates

It’s even easier for Leslies to sell them overpriced / watered down chemicals that they don’t need. Their brands are generally either harmful or so watered down the unsuspecting newbie would spend a fortune buying enough.

But for someone new who can't keep up or maintain levels, that 3000 reading at leslies they get will bit them in the......

The grossly inaccurate CYA reading that the store gives them is what will bite them when they drain for no reason. We just had another one today that Leslies was reporting a 147 and the OPs kit said 80. That’s not even close to the worst we’ve seen but still huge for what to do about it.

or the CYA laden maintenance chemicals that push the CYA up will bite them, ultimately making the phosphates matter. It is so much easier to see the light, follow the FC/CYA Levels and remove the algae from the equation.

 

[mguzzy]

If I understand this right....phosphates are food for algae, so why have them in the pool even thought they "don't matter"? It just doesn't make sense to me to have them in there if they do more harm then good if the circumstances call for them to be in effect.

Right phosphates are a nutrient, so are nitrates and iron.. but we really don't test for those. I don't know if the OP is right that it acts a softener, but some municipalities add phosphates to their water to help with their equipment maintenance I am told... so I found through empirical poking around that my pool seems to be easier to maintain if I do a phosphate treatment as a part of my pool opening in the spring. I figured that I got a lot of nutrients in the pool due to the run off from the raised garden bed behind my pool. Seem logical, but it was still conjecture. So I decided to take my own advice... if you are going to treat for it, then you better be testing for it. So I got myself a Taylor K1106 phosphate test kit, and my phosphates are at 2000ppb not 200ppb that the pool store was telling me. What does that tell me? That perhaps there is not as big a contribution from phosphates as I thought,.. There is some other mechanism going on, Or maybe once you get to that TFP manageable state phosphates become less of an issue. But the take home is, if you are really worried about phosphates get the kit that tests for it, so you can track it.

Add this to it.. there is anecdotal evidence that phosphates affect the operation of SWG cells. We are still looking for proof and trying figure out the mechanism that would cause it. But some SWG manufactures require a low level of phosphates be confirmed before they will honor warranty claims. so go figure.

I agree with Marty, the only two phosphate removers worth it are the SeaKlear or Orenda removers. The others are too dilute. And if you do use them, let the by product drop out on its own, don't use a floc or clarifier, and make sure you flush your filters afterwards.

 

[SLee]

......I don't know if the OP is right that it acts a softener, ......

Before going to the pool store, I googled benefits of phosphates and truth about phosphates. That took me to a competing pool website that phosphates bind to calcium and other minerals so they may help soften water. I've got no idea if it is true or not. I just said this to entertain the employee who knew nothing about pool chemistry and only repeated what he was told to repeat by his boss.

I cannot blame this individual because he was fresh out of high school, only doing his job, and thought he was saying was from the professionals. But I still had fun with it.