New Equipment choices for filter...

[Bignote]

Hello all.

I'm about to start renovating my 20 year old pool. I'm also replacing most of the equipment and wondered if it's time to rethink the current filter.

I have a Jandy Del60 DE filter currently. Over the last 2 years since we moved in, the filter and I finally reached an understanding, especially after moving from DE to cellulose. Once I figured that you can't add much beyond chlorine and ph adjustment (anything else just prematurely clogs the filter media) and realizing for clear water, that's kind of all you need anyway, it's been great.

However, despite recent rains, here in CA we do struggle with water levels which has prompted me to avoid backwashing and instead jump through a number of hoops to change the DE (Cellulose fibre) without losing too much water. I would pump water from the filter drain into a barrel and save it for reintroducing later, or for the plants once the chlorine burned off. Then I'd have the actual messy job of hosing down the grids, while also trying not to waste too much. Overall I think I've been quite successful, but it's not easy or quick.

I have read that cartridge filters are easy to use and save water. However, the filtration not being as fine worries me as the algae levels in this pool are a real battle. This might be in part thanks to a lot of vegetation in the yard that I can't avoid, plus the CA sunshine. I've also read that there are limits on the flow rates you can push through them. My soon to be replaced 1 speed motor is 2.0hp . It's replacement will be VS, but I don't know how hot I'll have to run it for the spillway to function.

Wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this, or any experience with the newer Pentair et al filters with quad cartridges that are still DE based, but have greater ease of operation.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks

 

[proavia]

You would be hard pressed to visually see the difference in the pool water between a DE filter and a cartridge filter.

If you have algae issues, it's a chemistry problem, not a filter issue.
Post a full set of current test results from your TF-100.
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temperature

Are you using PoolMath?
Are you following TFP methods and dosing your chlorine according to the FC/CYA Levels?

 

[Newdude]

However, the filtration not being as fine worries

There is a 5 micron difference which is .0001968 inches. Point Oh Oh Oh nineteen inches and well beyond the human eyes capabilities.

OK you made me look it up. Lol. It's accepted that the human eye can see down to .0039 inches. So let's round them both for easy math to .0002 and .004. Not only can you not see it, its 20X smaller than the eye can see.

For the pump I'd want a 3HP VS (2.7 for some brands). I'm a long term savings kinda guy and a larger pump moves more water with the same energy, so you run a larger pump at a lower speed for a savings.

Lastly, and I simply cannot reccomend this enough, is a SWG. I would run the big fat pump slow (sipping energy) 24/7 while the SWG topped off the FC around the clock. Pool sanitizing would become an afterthought. As me how I know.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Big,

Your pool stays clear, sanitized, and algae free because of the chemicals in the water. The filter has nothing to do with keeping you from getting algae. By the time the filter capatures algae, it is too late... You already have algae.

Filters are there to capture all the 'junk' that falls into your pool. They are not there to keep you from getting algae.

The fact that you say "as the algae levels in this pool are a real battle" tells me that you are not doing a very good job of following the TFP pool care principles..

What is your normal CYA and what FC level do you target??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bignote]

Thanks for all the advice.

What I should have said was that algae seemed to be a bigger problem when using DE alone. I don't have any algae problems right now, and I don't have any current readings either - it's cold, the pool is open but not in use, and we're manifesting record rainfall/storms almost every week so I'm not even trying to balance it.

I try to target the "normal" ranges as listed in my TF-100.

Last readings were
FC 1
CC 0.5
pH 7.3
TA 140
CH 500
CYA 50
Temp around 65°

In the normal run of things, we tend to have lots of sun from spring through late fall, and quite high wind in this area.

The previous owner had disconnected and trashed the SWG, saying that it couldn't keep up with the algae - I can only go on what I'm told. My experience with this system and DE was that I would aggressively shock the pool and find that after brushing and then cleaning the filter, it was clear for a week or so before algae would show again which had me perplexed and unhappy.

When I say "clear" what I really mean is I don't have any discernable algae issues - I realize. The Fiber Clear filters down to 2 microns vs the 4 of DE. When I tried clarifier and separately, the solar cover liquid, the filter pressure increased quite quickly, so I discontinued both. I haven't missed the clarifier and I'm not sure the solar liquid does much anyway.

I bought the property and land/pool with no experience and inherited many things that weren't ideal including jammed valves, stuck grid manifold and broken grids, lights etc. I have been trying to do what I could to fix and rehabilitate, while learning as I went from the good folks on here.

Ultimately, since going to the Fiber Clear, I shock periodically with Cal-hypo and maintain with sodium dichlor tabs in a floater, and all seems to be well - I'm just worried that as I had so many problems before, moving to a less fine amount of filtration could set me back. A Dolphin Premier also cleans every day.

In a few weeks, I will be replacing all equipment aside from the heater, so I was wondering if there is an easier filter model out there for cleaning when avoiding backwashing.

Noted - after the installation, I will have another look at everything and make sure I'm following best practices.

 

[proavia]

Given the reported CYA of 50 and FC of 1, you are well below the minimum FC as shown in the FC/CYA Levels.
Input your CYA of 50 and look at the minimum and target for FC.

Chances are you may already have nascent algae.

You still need to maintain the FC and pH in range even when it's raining.

A cartridge filter doesn't require backwashing.
The Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter would probably serve you well - along with a variable speed pump.

 

[Jimrahbe]

The previous owner had disconnected and trashed the SWG, saying that it couldn't keep up with the algae

Big,

The previous guy was correct, but for the wrong reason. If you have algae, most salt cells cannot produce chlorine faster than the algae can grow.

A salt cell will not prevent algae any more than a filter will prevent algae. Algae is a chemical issue and not a mechanical issue.

I have three saltwater pools, and about 10 years ago I switched over to the TFP pool care process. Since then, I have never had any algae. I don't use any magic potions, like clarifiers, and I no longer have to 'shock' my pool on a weekly basis. I clean my cartridge filter twice a year, but could go a whole year if I did not have OCD...

It is a dirt simple process... Just keep your CYA and FC in the proper relationship and you will not get algae.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bignote]

Thanks Jim - and are you certain that my surroundings can't complicate matters beyond the ability to balance the pool using a SWG? I'm surrounded by other properties with pools and ponds, and there are 15 trees, hillside vegetation all around the pool and the aforementioned strong wind in this area.

 

[Newdude]

and are you certain that my surroundings can't complicate matters beyond the ability to balance the pool using a SWG?

OK, let's take a step back and see the big picture. Your environment is what it is and will need X amount of chlorination either way. Either you add bleach or the SWG saves you the trouble. A SWG that's rated 2X will easily produce whatever you need. Let's take the Pentair IC20. (I'm biased but I'm doing the math so I get to pick which one we use ).

It'll produce 7.6 ppm FC in 11k gallons per 24 hours of runtime. Even if you're losing 5 ppm a day during heavy debris parts of the season, you'd cover the loss with plenty of time to spare. To achieve lower runtime, an IC40 would produce a skootch over 15 ppm in 24 hours for you and at most need 8 hours of runtime.

A 1X unit would work too, but need to run around the clock, and runtime reduces lifespan so the unit would reach end of life by the proportionate amount. Going larger, say from a 20 to a 40, nets double the lifespan for only 20% more cost. (Give or take with fluctuating pricing). It's like buying your next cell at 80% off and most people are happy to jump on that deal.

But yeah. The SWG can cover whatever you have going on and then some. It's fantabulous. (I had 75? Oaks on an acre at the old place and the SWG laughed)

 

[Jimrahbe]

are you certain that my surroundings can't complicate matters beyond the ability to balance the pool using a SWG?

Big,

In the 'Big' picture (pun intended) your environment has very little to do with getting algae. It tends to be used by a lot of people as an excuse for having algae, but it always comes back to maintaining the proper CYA to FC relationship.

Your environment might make your FC demand higher, but that won't cause algae unless you just let your FC drop too low.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bignote]

So I'm at 15K gallons give or take, and with the new 3Hp VS pump, I'll probably slow run 12 hrs per day, so with that in mind I should probably look to an IC40

 

[Newdude]

I should probably look to an IC40

Any automation or future plans for it ? You'd want to stay in your preferred brand if so.

 

[proavia]

What exact pump(s) do you have? Add the manufacturer and model numbers to your signature - along with any other equipment/automation.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

If you have automation, stay within the brand/manufacturer of the automation.
Otherwise, maybe look at the Circupool RJ45+ for the SWG.

 

[Bignote]

Yes, I have Jandy RS PureLink so I'll be staying within that brand. And now I realize that I do in fact have a PureLink Chlorine generator control board, although the cell is gone and been disconnected for some years... If I could ascertain that that part of it is ok before buying the cell...