New Construction! Above ground pool installed in the ground; pictures and questions

[gabner]

Hello fellas! Help me with a troublefree pool!


I've started construction on a new above ground pool installed in the ground. I would appreciate any and all advice.
I'm a complete noob so don't assume I know anything obvious.

It will be buried in the ground. 26' hole dug out and retaining wall is going in the next couple days.
I plan on putting down plastic sheeting and then blue foam board to insulate the bottom and insulating the sides with this? http://www.amazon.com/Gladon-100-Feet-Roll-Above-Ground/dp/B003TQMBLI
I would like to make an insulated cover with more foam board or something else?
Saltwater system ordered; http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Saltwater-CG-28679-Electrocatalytic-Oxidation/dp/B00PHX0D9I?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
I would like solar heaters on my roof, ~50 feet up from the pool and ~150 feet away
How to insulate the buried lines?

I'd like the solar system to run automatic and independent of the sand/salt system.

We'll be putting a cement pad around the front 2/3rd's of the pool.

Anything not obvious I'll need for the pool installation? Like these pool coves. I just happened to see them while looking at other stuff. I'm assuming it's worth getting? http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Wave-Stick-Above-Ground/dp/B004VQE1J0



It's a 20 gauge bead liner.
What are my options for going deeper?
Anyway without buying a new liner?
Does a non-beaded liner work on this pool?

My round above ground pool;
24' x 52" Century Pools Majestic Above Ground Resin Pool from Costco

Features:
Made in the USA, 7” Deluxe Non-corrosive Resin Ledges, 6" Texture Coated Galvanized Steel Vertical Supports

http://www.costco.com/Century-Pools-Majestic-Above-Ground-Resin-Pool-Packages.product.11202058.html

http://www.costco.com/wcsstore/Cost...chment/11202058_Pool-Assembly-Instruction.pdf

 

[cowboycasey]

Welcome to TFP

That is a long run for solar, what pump and filter are you getting?

How are you doing drainage of water around the pool when in ground?

The resin is the top but the sides and ring I believe are still metal and if sitting in water they will rust over time..

 

[Yukon Jack]

I buried my 18x33 oval AGP about 24" with it being a bit more at one end. I need to replace my liner so last spring I started to empty the pool. When it was down to about a foot of water we got a series of heavy rains which caused some intrusion of the ground against the side of the pool in one location. Had to get three hoses going to bring the level back up to prevent a major problem. Still haven't replaced the liner as I'm waiting for summer when we have a good dry spell to hopefully be able to replace the liner without issue. This is a big enough problem that I'm regretting having partially buried the pool at this point. Keep this type of potential problem in mind as you bury your AGP.

 

[gabner]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I ordered this SWG/Sand filter. Intex 120V Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump & Saltwater System CG-28679 with E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) for Above Ground Pools
Amazon.com : Intex 120V Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump Garden

I'm planning on buying 3 x Fafco solar pool heaters 2x20 to go on the third floor roof. 2" headers so I need 2"pvc?
1. Any ideas on how to insulate the run?


Here's an updated picture with the retaining wall almost complete.


My contractor wants to do the concrete patio next before doing the pool.

2. How to do the pool<->concrete patio interface.

He's planning on building out the concrete forms to overlap over where the pool edge will be. One concern is being able to put the winter cover on.
Maybe this is better with the top ledge of the pool exposed just on top of the concrete? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/2e/2e/352e2ef3fa857e7383651f0f2186022a.jpg

 

[gabner]

Will I have trouble finding (or cost prohibitive) a pump that will pump 150' away and 50' up?

 

[gwegan]

I would cancel the pump you ordered. I would get a regular at least two speed pump. You may want to PM Mas985 our resident pump expert for some suggestions. He has solar on his roof also.

You should run the solar through the filter and regular pump. You don't want to run unfiltered water through the solar panels. They may clog and it will void the warranty.

 

[mas985]

I agree that the Intex won't cut it. Where were you planning to put the equipment and will it be above water level or below water level?

~50 feet up from the pool

This requirement is probably going to force you into higher head IG pump anyway or at least booster pump. If the equipment is above water level, at a minimum, you are going to want to use a self priming pump.

But looking at the pictures, you can build a much more energy efficient system if you put the panels on a rack on the ground near the equipment. It looks as though you have plenty of ground space to do that.

 

[gabner]

I would cancel the pump you ordered.

Pool came with a chlorinator/filter/pump (Don't plan on using).
1. Why shouldn't I use the SWG pump/sand filter system I purchased?
2. Don't I want a separate dedicated pump for the solar?

Pump house is planned for behind the pool and lower than water level.

It would be expensive to put the solar system on the roof but thought it would be more efficient and worth the extra cost in the long run. The 3rd floor roof gets 0 shade and faces South. My yard gets roughly 60% of direct sunlight compared to the roof.

I planned to insulate the 300'+ (round trip) of 2" PVC.

Can help me understand the efficiency differences between the two locations?

Thanks for the feedback guys!
Gary

 

[mas985]

There are pros and cons to each location.

Roof
Pros - Better sun exposure (sometimes), a little extra heat gain from attic heat if there is an attic.
Cons - Longer pipe runs, more heat loss due to more wind exposure and sky exposure (radiation heat loss), more difficult to make repairs. Larger pumps are required for priming the panels so will use more energy for the same run time.

Ground/rack
Pros - Much easier to work on, less wind and radiation heat loss. Smaller, more efficient pumps can be used.
Cons - Need area to put it. Direct ground contact can have a little conduction heat loss so a rack is preferred.

I have used both and personally, if you have the area to put the panels, ground offers much easier maintenance and better energy efficiency. Also, many on the forum have built some pretty attractive racks:

Pool Solar panel racks - Google Search

To your questions:

1) Won't prime the panels without a booster pump.

2) Will use more energy. If you can use a single pump, you will use less energy.

 

[gabner]

Thanks for the feedback.

So I should get a standalone SWG system a separate pump with an automatic diverter valve? There must be a guide on this I can follow. I don't know anything; what size pipes to use, how to insulate, how they should be all connected, filter first then solar heaters is what I read somewhere on these forums and the above advice you gave me already on "worth the investment to use a single pump".

FYI... I've already received that SWG/Filter combo from amazon and may be beyond return time. If I stick with my plan for seperate pumps, how much difference does it really make on cost savings?
The little filter pump will run more often than the big solar pump (just guessing) and they will be on seperate timers.

I am most interested in long term cost vs short term. Thank you for helping me understand.

 

[mas985]

So I should get a standalone SWG system a separate pump with an automatic diverter valve?

I'm sorry but where did that come from?

What I was trying to get across is that if you want to use your current pump/filter/swg system, you have to put the solar panels close to the ground (rack mounted) which for your setup, I think is a better solution anyway. That way you don't have to insulate pipes, which I would not do anyway because it does not help that much, plus you can operate with a much more efficient pump, rather than a larger pump or a solar pump add-on.

I think solar will work better and you will save energy with rack mounted solar panels.

 

[gabner]

Thanks for the feedback Mark.

I decided for a heat pump instead of solar. I got this one: (rebadged Haward HP21104T)
Amazon.com : TRANE TR21174T Residential Pool Heat Pump Titanium 110, 000 BTU AHRI : Patio, Lawn Garden


Here's the equipment I have, is any of it adequate or should I have bought all separate/different components?

Pool came with Aquamaster 100sqft 10 micron cartridge filter and this pump.
Waterway 3410310-10 SD-75-1N11CB SD-10-1N11CB, Proline, Pro-Line, Pro Line pump

I wanted salt water and picked up this.
Amazon.com : Intex 120V Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump Garden

Everything will be sitting next to the pool

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -
Updated picture
http://i66.tinypic.com/2wpleyw.jpg

 

[mas985]

That is a spa pump and it has no pump basket.

The swg has a pump and a filter so I really don't understand what you are doing. You don't need two pumps and two filters.

 

[gabner]

Yes, that makes two of us.
I have a cartridge filter and the (spa) pump system that came with the pool but I wanted Salt water sand filter so I purchased the intek salt water system.

Do either pumps have adequate or ideal flow when used with a heat pump? I have two to pick from, any preference?
Should I return/sell this stuff and purchase a VS pump, seperate sand filter, and seperate salt water chlorinator?

Thanks again.
Gary

 

[mas985]

The Intex may not be able to produce enough flow rate for the heater. They are very weak pumps.

As for the other pump, does it have a pump basket or not. Do you have a picture of the actual equipment.

 

[gabner]

The Intex may not be able to produce enough flow rate for the heater. They are very weak pumps.

As for the other pump, does it have a pump basket or not. Do you have a picture of the actual equipment.

That's what I was afraid of.

Yes, the pump that came as a kit with the filter also came with a pump basket.


My thought is to use the better pump that came with the pool with the intex sand filter and salt water chlorinator.

Can I make good use of what i have or should I get something different?
Thank you.
Gary