New Build Confusion in Frisco, TX (Chlorination Decision)

[TXSteveO]

Greetings all... New TFP lurker, first time pool-owner-to-be, and confused as heck on the chlorination decision....

First, the details, we're a small family of 3. My wife, my daughter (10), and myself. No allergies or anything like that...

We've been in discussions with 5 different pool builders, ranging from small family ran contractor to what I'd consider premium custom builders. And we have received 4 different opinions on chlorination. Two builders (1 small, 1 premium) indicated that they did more SWG pools than any other, 2 (both on the premium side) that said they will walk away from a SWG build, and 1 (small) just kind of leaned away from SWG but I'm ruling that builder out already...

The two that indicated they would walk away from a SWG, one uses an ozone system and the other the N20 mineral system.. But effectively 3/5 that indicated SWG was a bad decision..

I've been lurking on here a bit and doing some reading here and there. It certainly seems that SWG is the preferred method of TFP... But we can't help but hear and consider the incredibly strong opinions of well established and well reviewed builders that are screaming No SWG!!!

Our goal: ~35'x15' sport pool and spa with ~700 sqft of decking to be added to our backyard already containing an existing oklahoma flagstone covered patio (~500sqft)....
Budget target was 80K (bids are coming in higher)... That'll come later I reckon... First I have to sort this decision!

I have read several of the forum posts and threads on the N20 and Ozone systems but if I read correctly, most of the threads and posts I found where quite dated, almost 10y old... I will continue to read, but would love any insight and thoughts on why such the discrepancy in builders opinions... I'll also note, our favorite builders so far from the discussions around everything else were the two that said No to SWG... But from our exposure to other peoples pools had left us initially wanting SWG...


Steve

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! I'll start this thread briefly by saying outdoor Texas pools do not need supplemental ozone (or UV). Minerals (typically copper) is a recipe for failure over time (staining) that will require dumping the water and stain removal. Make no mistake, sanitation is a must and chlorine is the primary agent for residential pools.

So you have choices for chlorine:
- Tab chlorinator that will increase CYA considerably each month requiring a water exchange
- Adding chlorine manually (usually liquid)
- Or letting an SWG convert saline filled water to chlorine gas.

Builders are often stuck in their ways with no science to prove otherwise. Did any of them tell you that ALL pools have salt? Probably not. SWG pools simply add a little more, but it's nothing that would be considered destructive. But you can always install one later on your own if you wish.

In any case, glad to have you with us. Good luck on your build.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

I have three saltwater pools that in total are over 25 years old.. No equipment or pools problems at all...

A saltwater pool is the easiest type of pool to maintain.

Did your pool builders say why they did not like saltwater pools???

I'd just as soon fill them in with dirt as not have them be saltwater pools.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TXSteveO]

Did your pool builders say why they did not like saltwater pools???

Thanks for the response Jim…. They seem to lean on how hard salt supposedly is on the equipment, the concrete, and the flagstone patio we already have primarily. One said it this way, if you put a gun to my head to do SWG, I may walk away or I may just have you sign off that we won’t warranty “it”, I suppose referring to the equipment but I didn’t press him on it..

Having never been a pool owner and having so few friends that have SWG pools, we just don’t have much non-salesy information to rely on. That’s why I decided to be “that guy” and ask the question here… heh…. The reading here almost screams SWG or Else! Which I tend to gravitate towards by preference based off of only 1-2 experiences in a SWG pool myself…

 

[reggiehammond]

SWCG all the way; I can’t understand the reluctance on the build community side. Just stuck in their crappy ways.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

Ask yourself this... Does it make sense that manufactures of pool equipment would make salt cells if they ate up the pool equipment they sell.. You won't see any warnings about using Hayward, Jandy, or Pentair pumps if the pool is saltwater... If the manufacturers warranty their products when using saltwater, why would in the world would the pool builders not do the same thing?

The real problem with saltwater pools are pool builders who have no clue how a saltwater pool works.. Since they don't know, they can't teach their pool owners how to take care of a saltwater pool... They initially sold saltwater pools as "set it and forget it" maintenance.. Which is just not true... You still have to understand how a saltwater pool works and routinely test your pool water.. You still need to keep your pool water balanced... It is just easier to do..

With pool builders in high demand, it might not be the best time, but I would tell them that I want a saltwater pool with your standard warranty.. If you don't want to do that then take a hike!!

It is a myth that saltwater pools are bad.. But like all myths, people believe in them, even when logic and facts say they are not true.. There are many myths out there that prove that point, the evil of saltwater is just one of them.

I live in Bedford, just West of the DFW airport and had no issue with pool builders not wanting me to go with saltwater. No one said a word against it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[red-beard]

I installed my pool 14 years ago. Last year I switched it to Salt. So much easier to maintain. No issues with equipment. No extra issues with flagstone.

You have 2 builders that love doing SWG. You have one that wants to install literally junk into your pool. I would stay away from the second one.
They installed Ozone and mineral on mine 14 years ago. What a joke!
I told my neighbor to get A Variable Speed Pump. Her builder said they aren't reliable. Pool builders want to build what they like.
If one requires a warranty waiver, they are not the right pool builder.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I'm your neighbor with a 3 year old salt pool and no issues.

Ozone, mineral and other "supplemental" sanitizers offer a lot of incentives to builders like trips if they sell enough of their equipment. I also suspect these same equipment manufacturers are good at spreading mis-information on the horrors of salt. Every pool builder I know has tons of pictures on their phone of different styles, tile types, coping, etc. Next time ask one to show you a picture of salt damage that they have seen, not some story from Jimmy's girlfriend's aunt's friend down in Cleburn....

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I admittedly knew nothing about pools when I began interviewing builders. The builder I chose, when I asked the questions about salt pools and that I had heard some say they were bad, such as stuff rusting and everything else. His response was "no, not really, you just really have to keep an eye on your pH, that is what will cause damage".

I'm with Jim, I'd fill my pool in if I didn't have a SWCG.

I can get where you are coming from with the general feeling from here as "SWCG or else!". That is because there is really only 2 sustainable ways of adding chlorine to your pool and that is either using liquid chlorine (lugging jugs), or SWCG. Any kind of 'dry' chlorine (tabs, powdered shock) contains other chemicals that sometimes you may want added to your pool, but generally you do not want in your pool and if added enough, can cause issues.

--Jeff

 

[gingrbredman]

I may not be the most experienced pool owner, but a few things I have learned from my PB, and this community...

Pool builders (PB) are jut that, the builders. Few, if any, know much at all about true water chemistry and how to maintain a trouble free pool (TFP). There are a few PBs here on this site who get it, and from the looks of it build some pretty nice stuff, but also understand the importance of real pool sanitization, and none of them would give you false information about the "evils" of a salt water pool. And they aren't selling you anything here, just helping a community out.

Speaking of selling you anything, no one here is making a profit off of their help. They are actually losing money if you think about it, taking all kinds of time, with no financial payback to help out pool owners, and potential owners just like yourself. When a community of people as helpful as this site its, will try and help you understand the real way for a TFP, I'd take that advice, like real, data driven advice and experience, over an overly dramatic PB who would rather be killed than install a salt water pool.

A lot of PBs just are set in their ways. This does not solely apply to PBs mind you, some electricians, plumbers, home builders etc. have done things the same way for years and are just not willing to change with the times. They are not willing to try out the new equipment, equipment that pool equipment companies have spent years of R&D perfecting, and then warranty. Any PB who tells you that salt is evil just doesn't understand how a salt water pool, or their equipment works.

Finally, I do not think the overall "advice" here is get a SWCG pool "or else". I think the experience and data, and ease of use would show this is probably one of the easiest ways to maintain a TFP, but there are plenty of people here that use liquid chlorine on a daily basis and those members are not "shunned" or looked down on, and no one would not help them just because they chose not to use a SWCG. Honestly, a lot of those daily chlorine adders probably did not know they could add a SWCG at the time their pool was build, probably because the builders just didn't understand them as I mentioned earlier.

In the end, the decision on to use a SWCG on a new pool build is a personal choice, and should be your choice, not the PB based on some wild conspiracy theories. They should give you all the information, and you should do all your research, like any big purchase, and make the decision. Personally, any PB who would not warranty equipment (that is already warrantied by the manufacturer) or their work because of salt water, I would avoid. Anyone who would try to put some mineral cartridge, or "ozone" on a build should also be avoided. Their presentations and salesmanship may be impressive, but if they are already trying to put junk into the build, what else is happening with your build you may not see so obviously?

Glad your here, and good luck with the decision!

 

[TXSteveO]

Thanks for all the input... And I did not mean for my comment about TFP being SWCG or else to have a negative connotation at all.. I was emphasizing the almost unanimous approval of SWCG...

Coming from admin'ing some other hobbiest groups on FB, I can certainly respect what goes into the admin/moderator roles and the rest of the community that are really just trying to look out for one another and help newbies weed through all the mis/disinformation spread by others with agendas...

I look forward to learning a lot through my builder selection and build process from this site and already recognizing the value to be had here...

I'll be back with more questions

Cheers!

 

[colinn]

Congrats on your upcoming pool build. I recently completed a build this past spring and used liquid chlorine to begin with. I couldn't use salt for the first 30 days at the plaster cured. Using liquid chlorine is easy and works fast as far as sanitizing your pool goes. Keep in mind I said I completed my build in the spring. So buying chlorine and pouring it in the pool in April and May was fine. When June hit, and the devil opens his mouth and lets out what we know as Houston heat and humidity, you quickly realize how old lugging around jugs of chlorine can become. Also, because liquid chlorine is unstabalized, you would would have to wait til the sun goes down to add it so it isn't absorbed by the sun. Some pool builders will tell you to use chlorine tabs and how easy they are. This is true, until your cya is through through the roof and you've having to use more chlorine to meet your sanitizing demand. When my builder installed my SWG, things became so much more easier. I did have to add some stabilizer to bring my cya up and did have to add acid once or twice a week but that is much more easier than worrying about keeping liquid chlorine on hand or worrying about my cya going through the roof with chlorine tabs. I think most who have SWG installed will tell you that going back to liquid chlorine or chlorine tabs is out of the question. All the best with you decision.

 

[ferretbone]

I guess I can bottom line this for you.

If you want to mess around with your pool far less, then you should use a builder that installs salt cells.

Seal your patio and couping with a good sealant once a year and you will be happy with a salt pool. That's what those builders are worried about. Not your equiptment. And to be fair, they have a specialty in frisco, new Flower mound, Southlake, McKinny, etc where they can dump at lot of specialty Crud they stored up and get stuck with, or up sale a bunch of Crud they make good markup on.
They are just trying to be these guys that do it the "rightway" . They do not push that noise in other areas in DFW near as hard. If at all.

They stocked up on equiptment durning covid, the freeze, and the tab shortage this/last summer that they need to get rid of before they go back to installing salt cells, and chlorinators again. SPC, FWP, PWP are all getting tabs back in so those alternative ways the "better ways" are coming to an end.

For $1500-1800 plus install you can have a low stress salt pool.

Also we are suppose to have a chlorinator on salt pools for when the temp drops in the winter. An inline chlorinator is about $90. If you go salt think of chlorinators as backup

Or if you like to do it the ol chlorine way but like the feel of salt water pool then dump 3 or 4, (40-50lb) bags of salt in your pool. Now you have the feel of a SWG pool, at the same price of a chlorine pool.

 

[wireform]

Also, because liquid chlorine is unstabalized, you would would have to wait til the sun goes down to add it so it isn't absorbed by the sun.

LC is unstabilized yes, wait till the sun goes down NO, that's what CYA added to your pool is to shield it from UV. Any pool SWCG or otherwise will lose 3-5ppm FC daily mid summer mid day and has nothing to do when you pour it in. If you chose the SWCG then size it 2X pool capacity for extra life with having extra punch so not necessarily will you have to run it at 100%. With LC be prepared to be searching and lugging all the time. Either way a well balanced pool outcome will be the same.