Negotiating with Pool builders?

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Carriveaua

Carriveaua

0
Oct 20, 2016
21
AZ
Hi all! I'm curious if it's routine or expected to negotiate with builders when purchasing a pool. If so, what's your approach? I'm thinking of asking the builder to build in a "late fee" clause in the contract for $50/ day over 1 week late to ensure it doesn't take forever. Has anyone ever done that?

I'm happy with the bid I got, but would I be an idiot to sign without negotiating?


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Great question. I wasn't very good about negotiating but I guess every situation is different. Around here, the weather is too big of a factor to implement a 'late fee'. Also, I wouldn't want them rushing to meet a deadline - and possibly cutting corners.
 
I took the car buying approach when I was dealing with the pool builder. I ended up with a little bit of a discount after going back and forth with several builders for almost a year. But there was not much negotiating to be had and I tried hard.

I agree with veccster about not putting a limit on time. You will want to enjoy this process and you don't want them rushing you will end up unhappy. .
 
Yes you can negotiate. And it will cut the price.

I had the two largest integrated pool builders bidding against each other. By structuring the contract differently (cutting the deck work out of the pool contract) I realized significant savings.

I added clauses regarding lien releases, time limits and back ended the payment schedule.

If you want the pool done on time then choose an integrated contractor who controls their own crews, has been in business at least ten years and builds at least 200 pools per year. They will deliver a pool on time and better than smaller contractors relying on subs.

Unlike most of the country you have a wide selection of contractors.
 
I've had much more luck with incentives. It is natural to me disincentivized by negative motivators, or to find excuses wnphy they should not apply. However good "students," or in this case a person proud of their work, is likely to look at an incentive with 2 positive motivators. 1) "free" excess margin, and 2) an achievement of a an "A" or a real-world indicator that they are an "A" student.

By excess margin, I mean if someone does a 10,000 dollar job, let's say 1k of that is margin or profit. If you offered a 200 dollar incentive, he/she would have to earn another 2000 of business to earn that 200 bucks. Said another , this is pure gravy.

Positive motivators are powerful. what it winds up doing is helping to prioritize your work. If he/she is late on 2 jobs, guess which one gets worked on that day? If it rains that day, guess which one the PB will figure out how to make progress on that day?

And as as far as the worry about cutting corners, this is something you can easily manage yourself--"hey, I know it rained for a solid week, so I don't expect that time to be counted against being late."
 
gwegan said:
Yes you can negotiate. And it will cut the price.

I had the two largest integrated pool builders bidding against each other. By structuring the contract differently (cutting the deck work out of the pool contract) I realized significant savings.

Unlike most of the country you have a wide selection of contractors.
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Great advice, the PB does not have to do your deck work. If you can find a good patio guy/company and have a large patio, you can save a lot.
 
Foosman said:
Great advice, the PB does not have to do your deck work. If you can find a good patio guy/company and have a large patio, you can save a lot.
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In what I saw from my builders, they didn't take a big margin on the pool deck. This could obviously vary, but they wanted to charge me around $10 per sq ft for concrete with Koolcote, whereas my price all in came to about $9. Things like turndown, concrete pump rental, drainage add up on top of the base price contractors will quote for concrete (ex. $6 per sq ft).

I think the pool builders' main margin is coming from the pool itself and not as much from the patio. Definitely worth looking into, but if it's only a small amount of savings, I'd just let them take care of it.
 
And5555 said:
In what I saw from my builders, they didn't take a big margin on the pool deck. This could obviously vary, but they wanted to charge me around $10 per sq ft for concrete with Koolcote, whereas my price all in came to about $9. Things like turndown, concrete pump rental, drainage add up on top of the base price contractors will quote for concrete (ex. $6 per sq ft).

I think the pool builders' main margin is coming from the pool itself and not as much from the patio. Definitely worth looking into, but if it's only a small amount of savings, I'd just let them take care of it.
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Yes, but you are the master of finding good deals :). I had one builder quote $14/sq ft and another quote $16/sq ft.
 
I have not built a pool BUT I have dealt with many trades people over time. There is NO harm in kindly bidding each company against each other. I ALWAYS let them know up front that I am getting quotes from many others.

When I got my new AC unit (with some extra work to add more ducting) they were passing each other in the drive way LOL

Kim:kim:
 

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doobs41378 said:
Not really, ours was basically here is what we can offer and here is what it will cost you. If you want a lower price we can cut some things out of the proposal etc....
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That was my experience as well. The builder we chose offered the equipment we wanted, was responsive to our questions (with honest answers!) and concerns, and seemed genuinely interested in our satisfaction. As it turned out the price was in the middle of the quotes we obtained from others.
 
I don't mean to rain on the discussion but we are talking about very different things in very different markets.

The Phoenix market for pools basically has gunite builders large and small. That market is vastly different from the market in New Hampshire with fiberglass, liner and gunite builder fighting over a much smaller market and probably no builder doing more than 200 pools a year.

Because the market differences are so dramatic it's difficult to give general advice and the value of antidotal exprence is diminished.
 
gwegan said:
I don't mean to rain on the discussion but we are talking about very different things in very different markets.

The Phoenix market for pools basically has gunite builders large and small. That market is vastly different from the market in New Hampshire with fiberglass, liner and gunite builder fighting over a much smaller market and probably no builder doing more than 200 pools a year.

Because the market differences are so dramatic it's difficult to give general advice and the value of antidotal exprence is diminished.
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200?? I bet the average does no more than 10 to 20 pools a year. The ground is frozen 5 months or so a year so that leaves you 6 or 7 months and I doubt any of them are doing 35 pools a month for those 6 months. I swear there is a pool under here.....

Snow_zpscy49l6kt.jpg
 
I was quite shocked at that 200 number as well. I suppose in maybe the Dallas market which is growing rapidly and most people have pools, but around here....they build maybe 15-20 during the season. Most builders have store fronts that sell chemicals to add to income. Most also turn into halloween and christmas stores when the weather turns to ^^^^ that! Or sell patio furniture or standalone hot tubs.

We recently built a house and I found that any attempt to negotiate meant they just looked at material and how they could cut back. Same with the pool. When I expressed concern over a bid price, they would just say..."well, we could change the steps or make the pool smaller".

I had 4 bids and chose one from those 4. I never even heard back from the other 3. No follow up....nothing. I just don't think they needed the business so perhaps that is why they were not willing to negotiate.

Different markets...different situations.
 
Yes, the OP is in AZ. Let's focus on that market to avoid confusion.
 
And those large builders will negotiate. If you have competing bids. They may suggest ways to cut costs like mine did by removing the concrete. By removing the decking it cuts down on the overhead and reduces an item that is pretty much a fixed cost that I could get done less expensively.

Generally with companies that build over 200 pools they will put you in the schedule and will pop out with a pool on time. They control the whole process (ok maybe some parts they don't control) and for the parts they don't control those subs will work overtime at regular rates to make them happy. I worked for a large contractor and subs would fight to work with us because we were predictable and paid on time.

I'll say again you want to back load the payments so 10% (or more) is due 10 to 15 days after completion so you can be sure there are no liens and they have cleared all the punch list items. Get the phone number and email address of an individual who is your single point of contact who will get your problems resolved.

Look at your plans, ask questions. When a crew arrives in the morning ask what they are doing. Check back during the day to see how they are doing and if its not right politely tell them and your contact person ASAP. Inspect the work every day after they are done and let your contact know immediately if there is a problem.
 

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