Need to Identify Return Marked as 'X'

[xclaim494]

hi,

I have a question for the plumbing experts : Attached is a picture of the Return side of my Pool - Yes its horrible therefore i need to fix the leaks that have been neglected over the years. Want to redo the whole thing

Simple question I have is that on the Return side i have 3 returns : ( 4 actually but 2 of the SPA returns are connected below-ground)

1. SPA Returns are identified
2. Pool returns are identified
3. I don't know what the X return is ?

So I tried turning all of the other returns off and just returned to the 'X' and on full blast i still cannot figure out where the water is going ? I checked each individual return one at a time and I am really stumped with this one.
I also have a return plumbed for the cleaner (polaris) but that's not it as well

Point to Note : I have 6 jets on my SPA and only 3 work at any time) I also have an Air Bubbler/Blower

Could this be going to the blocked jets on SPA? do i need to investigate that further ?

 

[HermanTX]

Normally a valve arrangement like that indicates that “x” return would go to a water feature such as a bubbler in the pool, or a waterfall or fountain that flows into the pool. The other would be a infloor cleaning system but you indicate there is a separate cleaner line. Is that cleaner line for a pressure side cleaner that uses a booster pump?

Show a photo of the suction side plumbing, the complete equipment pad and the pool/spa set up.

How do you know the 2 spa lines connect underground? When you have the valves arranged such that only the spa valve (next to the pool return) is open, does water flow to all 3, 6 or just 1 jet in the spa?

How long as the 3 jets in the spa not been functioning? Have you removed the jets and to see if they are blocked. They are located about 6 inches back from the return on the spa wall.

 

[xclaim494]

Normally a valve arrangement like that indicates that “x” return would go to a water feature such as a bubbler in the pool, or a waterfall or fountain that flows into the pool. The other would be a infloor cleaning system but you indicate there is a separate cleaner line. Is that cleaner line for a pressure side cleaner that uses a booster pump?

Show a photo of the suction side plumbing, the complete equipment pad and the pool/spa set up.

How do you know the 2 spa lines connect underground? When you have the valves arranged such that only the spa valve (next to the pool return) is open, does water flow to all 3, 6 or just 1 jet in the spa?

How long as the 3 jets in the spa not been functioning? Have you removed the jets and to see if they are blocked. They are located about 6 inches back from the return on the spa wall.

the cleaner line comes from a 3- port valve before it goes to the Heater : Ill send more pics of suction and whole pad soon

i know the 2 SPA returns connect underground as i can see it - ill send a pic of that as well.

I have not cleaned out the jets - I will do that over next few days and let you know. Its been like that forever - like over 6 years before we bought the house

 

[proavia]

The SPA line on the right in your picture is the spa make up line - notice the inline check valve.
Since you don't have automation, there should be a little water flow to the spa anytime the pump is on - unless you manually open/close the spa line a couple times daily to refresh your spa water.
The spa line with the check valve is the one you would use to accomplish this as the check valve should prevent the spa draining down to pool water level when the pump is off.

The two spa lines combining underground, while not the way we see them frequently, is fine.

As @HermanTX suggested, the valve in the top left probably is plumbed to a water feature or bubbler, which may no longer be present since you didn't mention it.

 

[xclaim494]

OK some more information :
1. I opened the eyeball on the jets and cleaned them out completely - but there is a nozzle or orifice on the inside that i cannot remove. I think I might need a special tool for that. Image attached
2. I confirmed that the SPA's are connected below ground - Image attached.
3. Attached image of the SPA jets (you can see 3 of them not at 100%), also attached image of the equipment pad - its a complete mess need to re do it completely.

So what do i do with the X pipe, and where does it go?

I don't think its capped off as when I open it the equipment continues to operate perfectly, Is it possible that its connected to the supply side (to form a recirculation) of the plumbing ? Did they do that back int he day - this pool is 25 years old i believe.

 

[HermanTX]

1. I opened the eyeball on the jets and cleaned them out completely - but there is a nozzle or orifice on the inside that i cannot remove. I think I might need a special tool for that. Image attached

The orifice usually has a 6 point head on it. A socket such as 9/16th (my memory may not be correct) should fit over it. You may need an 6 inch extension on the socket drive. It should just unscrew.

2. I confirmed that the SPA's are connected below ground - Image attached.

Thanks.

3. Attached image of the SPA jets (you can see 3 of them not at 100%), also attached image of the equipment pad - its a complete mess need to re do it completely.

I see flow is coming from all 6 jets but some is more powerful than others. It also could be a function of how it was installed with the jet farthest from the start of the loop is the weakest. Try to remove the orifice, then flush, then reinstall the office to see if that improves it.
Also turn on your air blower as that will flush out the air line and improve jet performance.

 

[HermanTX]

So what do i do with the X pipe, and where does it go?

I don't think its capped off as when I open it the equipment continues to operate perfectly, Is it possible that its connected to the supply side (to form a recirculation) of the plumbing ? Did they do that back int he day - this pool is 25 years old i believe.

I hear you when you say that it all works when only the “x” line is open, but then it has to be going somewhere. It would not be a recirculate line back to the suction. I am a little hesitant to suggest testing it again because if the line is blocked then deadheading a pump is not safe or good for the pump. Water is incompressible.
Have you checked if you have any water feature or similar type lines going to the pool?
My only other thought is that they make a Venturi skimmer. The return line would enter back into the skimmer on the side wall or at the bottom of the skimmer, but then the line would also continue to the pool wall. It would be directly below the skimmer.

 

[xclaim494]

I hear you when you say that it all works when only the “x” line is open, but then it has to be going somewhere. It would not be a recirculate line back to the suction. I am a little hesitant to suggest testing it again because if the line is blocked then deadheading a pump is not safe or good for the pump. Water is incompressible.
Have you checked if you have any water feature or similar type lines going to the pool?
My only other thought is that they make a Venturi skimmer. The return line would enter back into the skimmer on the side wall or at the bottom of the skimmer, but then the line would also continue to the pool wall. It would be directly below the skimmer.

ok so i tested it again ( by opening it) basically done this a few times before so i don't think it hurts.

I checked for flow into the bottom of the skimmers since you mentioned venturi and i didn't see anything movement there.

There are no water features - i only have a SPA Air Blower (hopefully that's not what you mean right?) I think by water feature you mean a fountain or bubbler or something like that ? there are none.

the only other thing i can think of is that one of the drains at bottom of deep end is also a return ?

also would it be going to waste ? But I don't see the pool level dropping when I open it ? So I'm assuming its not waste.

TY so much tho - I was so hopeful when you mentioned the skimmer venturi thingy., but no cigar !

 

[proavia]

The vertical pipe on the pump outlet has a Jandy valve where it tees off. Where does the pipe on the right go?

Maybe carefully dig down by the unknown 'X' pipe and by the pipe after the pump that goes to the right and down into the ground. See if those two are connected.
If so, it's possible you have some wonky filter bypass.

 

[HermanTX]

also would it be going to waste ? But I don't see the pool level dropping when I open it ? So I'm assuming its not waste.

A waste line would “normally” be plumbed in before the filter. No sense putting flow through a filter then sending it to waste line.

There are no water features - i only have a SPA Air Blower (hopefully that's not what you mean right?) I think by water feature you mean a fountain or bubbler or something like that ? there are none.

Air blower pushes air to the spa air line that joins to the spa jet line so that is not it.
A water feature would usually flow back to the pool, especially if it is on the return plumbing system.

the only other thing i can think of is that one of the drains at bottom of deep end is also a return ?

I have never heard of that to be plumbed in a drain. I doubt it because it would just circulate that water.
There are deep returns that may be 3-4ft below the surface but it still looks like a pool return. It is just set deeper than the standard return which are about 18 inches below the surface.

My only suggestion is to put the pump on high. Put in Pool Mode. Close off that X return and just leave the pool return open. Get in the pool and feel every opening that is facing the pool. Then do the same by moving to Spa Mode and check all the returns (even the one in the bottom).
Confirm that there is flow at every opening.
If all of the visible jets are flowing in either Pool or Spa mode, then that “x” return will remain unknown.