Need Refurbish Hybrid Pool Help

[SHOdiver]

Hello All,
New to the forum, and what I've read so far is impressive. My thread title says it all. I have been looking since early November for someone to help with my pool. It is a 30 year old gunite pool with 1ft of tile on the top edge peripheral, fiberglass sheets butted together for the next 3ft, and gunite for the rest. 16x32, kidney shaped.
In the 4 years under my care, it has been flawless and fun, but in early November, began to use more water per day. For four years, I was adding 10 to 20 gallons a day using a timer, then suddenly it began to use 50-60 gallons. The room is kept under 50% humidity, using a Dectron dehumidifying unit, and there is a slow moving fan in the ceiling for negative air.
I let the water level lower itself about a foot and a half, and now it seems to not be losing nearly as much. I hired a scuba diver to go down and check the drain, which passed the ink test. He could not find any leaks using ink throughout the sidewalls, but felt it was time to change the tile and caulk all around the fiberglass panels. While the waters out, it's probably a good time to refurbish the gunite, and possibly repair the deep-end drain, which has been plugged before my watch.
Anybody know anyone in Ohio who might be interested in some winter work? I have yet to have anyone return my calls or email inquiries.
Thanks

 

[sktn77a]

Sounds like you have an old "hybrid" pool. They leak at the seams and the gelcoat on the fiberglass blisters and cracks. Tool me over 2 years to find someone to renovate mine. The cement bottom is probably fine. It may need re-plastered and you may have a leak at the main drain and the fiberglass panel seams (and also the skimmer) - dye testing doesn't always find the leak. You may be able to find someone to fiberglass over the existing panels (and possibly the bottom) or to fit a liner.

Good luck!

 

[SHOdiver]

Hello All,
New to the forum here. I bought a house in Northern Ohio with a built-in indoor pool, 4 years ago, from the original owner who had it custom built in 1990. The pool was refurbished at least one time, and the pool and room appearance is excellent. It uses a Dectron unit for dehumidification and has a slow moving vent fan in the ceiling to ensure negative room pressure. On my watch, the room has been successfully kept at 50% humidity. For the last two years, I used a B-hyve solenoid to add water twice a day. 10-20 gallons evaporated each day, and I combined the B-hyve with a float system to keep the water at the same level.
Two months ago, the water consumption rose. It began to need 50+ gallons a day to keep the water level. Suspecting a leak, I shut off the filter pump and got out the dye and went over all the usual suspect points I could reach, underwater light, strainer assembly, steps, outlets and discolored seams between the fiberglass sheet upper walls. Nothing leaked fast enough to affect the dye. There is drain on the deep end, which I was told leaked and was capped off years ago. I hired a scuba diver to check the deep end drain and go over all of the seams in the fiberglass walls, as well as a discolored area in the gunite surface. The gunite still looks excellent, and there i only a single brown spot that is about 1 sq. in. The diver said this spot did not affect the dye.
My pool is a 'hybrid family fun' pool, 16x32 kidney shaped, about 14,000 gallons. The entire bottom including the 9ft deep end is gunite. The sides for the first four feet use 10ft long flexible fiberglass sheets, butted end to end around the perimeter. At the top of the perimeter, for about 10 inches, is a very old worn tile that has begun to flake off the surface. The tile is dry now because I am letting the pool slowly drain out. Not sure if the surface under the tile is gunite or fiberglass. Since November, I have been contacting pool companies in my area to come out and estimate a refurbishment job. 10 so far. No one has returned a call or email. I guess business is booming, and they don't need any work. Also, I'm guessing there are only a handful of people with the expertise.
If I can't find a qualified supplier, I will have to get busy myself and learn the trade. Also, will need to know the names of companies with high end refinishing products and tools. I couldn't find anyone to install a pump, filter, and heater, so I did that myself two years ago with complete success.
Thanks for any advice you folks can lend.
SHOdiver

 

[ajw22]

Read here about the history and options with a Hybrid Pool - Hybrid Pools - Further Reading

People have found no one understands a hybrid pool or wants to work on them now. You are on your own for finding and repairing your leak(s).

I am going to ask a Mod to change your subject to "Need Refurbish Hybrid Pool Help" to get the attention of other hybrid pool owners here.

 

[SHOdiver]

Read here about the history and options with a Hybrid Pool - Hybrid Pools - Further Reading

People have found no one understands a hybrid pool or wants to work on them now. You are on your own for finding and repairing your leak(s).

I am going to ask a Mod to change your subject to "Need Refurbish Hybrid Pool Help" to get the attention of other hybrid pool owners here.

thanks for your help

 

[SHOdiver]

Sounds like you have an old "hybrid" pool. They leak at the seams and the gelcoat on the fiberglass blisters and cracks. Tool me over 2 years to find someone to renovate mine. The cement bottom is probably fine. It may need re-plastered and you may have a leak at the main drain and the fiberglass panel seams (and also the skimmer) - dye testing doesn't always find the leak. You may be able to find someone to fiberglass over the existing panels (and possibly the bottom) or to fit a liner.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I sent a message to STLPool2017 to get finer details on his outcome in 2019.
Who did you finally find, and where are they located?
Thanks
SHOdiver

 

[SHOdiver]

Read here about the history and options with a Hybrid Pool - Hybrid Pools - Further Reading

People have found no one understands a hybrid pool or wants to work on them now. You are on your own for finding and repairing your leak(s).

I am going to ask a Mod to change your subject to "Need Refurbish Hybrid Pool Help" to get the attention of other hybrid pool owners here.

I printed and read all of the links you sent. About 200 pages. Really gave me incite, though I'm still unclear on a few points:
What is directly underneath the fiberglass walls and how are they held in place, assuming there is an air gap behind them.
How do I find someone to quote a liner? Not sure this is best for me, but I would like to get an idea on the cost for comparison.
Is there a way to repair a leaking drain pipe that returns to the filter without tearing up concrete.
Is it a good idea to put a second fiberglass wall on top of the leaking wall? I saw in one post where a one-piece wall was installed on top of the old wall, but no source for supplier or contractor was mentioned.

 

[SHOdiver]

Has anyone heard of Mid-America Pool Renovations? They sound too good to be true.

 

[sktn77a]

Well, they will fiberglass over your entire pool surface. Might be a good solution for you. However, the warranty is pretty worthless. At best they will provide some fiberglass and resin to repair the pool (but no labor). At worst, they will call upon their exclusions to deny any liability. Having said that, you're between a rock and a hard place, so you may have to roll the dice.

 

[ajw22]

I printed and read all of the links you sent. About 200 pages. Really gave me incite, though I'm still unclear on a few points:
What is directly underneath the fiberglass walls and how are they held in place, assuming there is an air gap behind them.

Read the middle of this blog about hybrid pool constructions...

Different Types Of Inground Pools

www.swimmingpoolsteve.com

How do I find someone to quote a liner? Not sure this is best for me, but I would like to get an idea on the cost for comparison.

Talk with Pool Builders who install liner pools in your area or ask in local pool stores who replaces liners.

Is there a way to repair a leaking drain pipe that returns to the filter without tearing up concrete.

You mean a leaking main drain in the floor of the pool? If so, plug up the main drain. A pool does not need a main drain and many folks plug it when it begins leaking.

Is it a good idea to put a second fiberglass wall on top of the leaking wall? I saw in one post where a one-piece wall was installed on top of the old wall, but no source for supplier or contractor was mentioned.

That is basically building a new pool shell within the pool. It can work if done properly.

 

[SHOdiver]

Have any of the Hybrid pool owners with leaky walls used, or received a quote from Mid-America Pool Renovation. I am considering calling them regarding my 30 year old, slow leakinig fiberglass walls. Any input is welcome!
SHOdiver

 

[SHOdiver]

Read the middle of this blog about hybrid pool constructions...

Different Types Of Inground Pools

www.swimmingpoolsteve.com

Talk with Pool Builders who install liner pools in your area or ask in local pool stores who replaces liners.



You mean a leaking main drain in the floor of the pool? If so, plug up the main drain. A pool does not need a main drain and many folks plug it when it begins leaking.



That is basically building a new pool shell within the pool. It can work if done properly.

Thanks for the replies. I'm just warming up on getting started and am trying to learn from others. The drain was plugged before I bought the house, and it passed the ink test done by a skin diver. Are there companies dedicated to making custom pool liners?

 

[ajw22]

Are there companies dedicated to making custom pool liners?

Read Liner Replacement - Further Reading

 

[Newdude]

Are there companies dedicated to making custom pool liners

There are many installers who can have one made by the big companies. For ballpark figures a liner for your sized pool can be installed around $5k and you’d be good for a long time, especially indoors and not exposed to the elements. If you had the right company to loacate just what needs fixing on the existing pool it could be cheaper than that, but it would only be a matter of time before similar problems arose in other areas. To overhaul the pool completely could be $10k-$15k

Some people are against liner pools in general and feel their money is well spent on the renovation, and that’s ok too, but a liner would be a one-and-done project that’s a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[SHOdiver]

Received my first call back today from a local pool supplier. They are mainly concrete pool oriented, but offered to come out to quote caulking the seam between the fiberglass wall and cement shelf. I believe this is the first best thing to try. I asked about the blisters that are present on the fiberglass panels at the very bottom. He said he is not a fiberglass expert, and offered the name of a local supplier that is. That supplier has an answering service and internet quote system, and has not yet returned any of my tries at contact.

 

[SHOdiver]

There are many installers who can have one made by the big companies. For ballpark figures a liner for your sized pool can be installed around $5k and you’d be good for a long time, especially indoors and not exposed to the elements. If you had the right company to loacate just what needs fixing on the existing pool it could be cheaper than that, but it would only be a matter of time before similar problems arose in other areas. To overhaul the pool completely could be $10k-$15k

Some people are against liner pools in general and feel their money is well spent on the renovation, and that’s ok too, but a liner would be a one-and-done project that’s a lot of bang for the buck.

thanks for your thoughts. I'm beginning the repair process by caulking at the joint where the fiberglass panels meet the concrete shelf. LIner is on the back burner but it helps to know the cost.
SHOdiver

 

[SHOdiver]

Read Liner Replacement - Further Reading

Great article. Thank you. Complexity is high, and an expert would be the only way to go, IMO.

 

[sktn77a]

Received my first call back today from a local pool supplier. They are mainly concrete pool oriented, but offered to come out to quote caulking the seam between the fiberglass wall and cement shelf. I believe this is the first best thing to try. I asked about the blisters that are present on the fiberglass panels at the very bottom.

Don't waste your time doing this. I did this every couple of years with my hybrid pool - $500 to recaulk and $500 in replacing the water each time. Your choices are a renovation consisting of:

1. Get the blisters repaired (they will crack and tear any liner you put in), then get a company to put in a liner track and custom liner (cost $3000-$7000, depending on complexity).
2. Get the blisters repaired (they will crack and compromise any fiberglass surface you put in) and then get a fiberglass company specializing in pool renovations to give you an estimate (cost $8,000-$15,000, depending on complexity). Companies that do this are mid-america pool renovations and east coast pools. I don't have any experience with either but would have gone with east coast if they had been available.
3. Tear out the walls, drill in rebar to support the new walls and gunite over the whole thing (cost $20,000-$30,000 depending on how far you go). This is what I ended up doing. See my post (post #79) at:

EcoFinish Pool wall questions

Great advice to stay with a solid vinyl liner. I do worry about fading. As to overall take-aways to this entire ordeal: 1) When looking to renovate your pool ALWAYS ask the Pool renovator if they are doing the work themselves and not using a 3rd party sub-contractor. ONLY deal directly with...

www.troublefreepool.com

Good luck!

 

[SHOdiver]

I have experience with the West system and boats, specifically replacing a transom successfully on a 17ft boat. My plan was to fix all blisters, with pro instructions, then caulk. Being indoors, my pool and pool room look to be 5 years old. Also, time and money should be more available in the future.
Thanks for the excellent advice. I will be contacting both companies for input.
For your specific hybrid pool, what was your long-term solution?
SHOdiver

 

[SHOdiver]

Don't waste your time doing this. I did this every couple of years with my hybrid pool - $500 to recaulk and $500 in replacing the water each time. Your choices are a renovation consisting of:

1. Get the blisters repaired (they will crack and tear any liner you put in), then get a company to put in a liner track and custom liner (cost $3000-$7000, depending on complexity).
2. Get the blisters repaired (they will crack and compromise any fiberglass surface you put in) and then get a fiberglass company specializing in pool renovations to give you an estimate (cost $8,000-$15,000, depending on complexity). Companies that do this are mid-america pool renovations and east coast pools. I don't have any experience with either but would have gone with east coast if they had been available.
3. Tear out the walls, drill in rebar to support the new walls and gunite over the whole thing (cost $20,000-$30,000 depending on how far you go). This is what I ended up doing. See my post (post #79) at:

EcoFinish Pool wall questions

Great advice to stay with a solid vinyl liner. I do worry about fading. As to overall take-aways to this entire ordeal: 1) When looking to renovate your pool ALWAYS ask the Pool renovator if they are doing the work themselves and not using a 3rd party sub-contractor. ONLY deal directly with...

www.troublefreepool.com

Good luck!

Still going back and forth, confusion is King!
I am now very intrigued by your #3, and will speak with my local concrete pool guy when and if he calls back.
I read your original post as above last week, and thought 'wow, that's a lot to take on."
BTW, my pool looks IDENTICAL to yours, only indoors. Your solution is beginning to look practical.
1.So you would definitely go with the concrete walls rather than the fiberglass interior or the liner?
2. Is there a reason you tore out the fiberglass walls, instead of using them as a form in the back of the gunite?
3. What did the area behind the fiberglass walls look like?
4. In your photo where the gunite is being sprayed, there are two men holding a 2x10 sheet of (plywood?) Is this to prevent overspray?
5. I have two return hoses, steps, and a skimmer in the first three feet of pool the walls occupy. Can you recommend a process or give thoughts for each?
SHOdiver