Need help with Never-Lube valve repair

[Dirk]

First time replacing Never-Lube valve o-rings. Watched a couple videos, simple enough. But I found this on the shaft, just under the two top o-rings. It's some sort of spacer. The videos didn't mention it. And one of the old o-rings was caught up in it, kinda smashed/pinched between the spacer and the corresponding piece on the shaft. The spacer and this "corresponding piece" are the same exterior diameter. It's as if the spacer is extending that piece. Thoughts? Is it supposed to be there? Any tips? Or just put it back together, best-guess fashion?

 

[Dirk]

Correct that. It looks like the o-rings fit over the smaller diameter of the shaft, not over the spacer and the raised area. The spacer seems to be setting the position of the o-rings farther upwards. In other words, the spacer and the raised area are below the two o-rings, not under them. No wonder it was leaking:

 

[ajw22]

the spacer and the raised area are below the two o-rings, not under them.

Doesn't below and under mean the same thing?

 

[Dirk]

To clarify: an o-ring is now adjacent to the spacer, just as the two o-rings are adjacent, all three are in contact with the shaft. So it goes, from the top down: o-ring 1, o-ring 2, spacer, raised portion. In that context, the spacer is now below the o-rings, as opposed to being between the o-ring and the shaft.

 

[ajw22]

Ah, so the three are stacked with the O rings on top.

Versus the way it was with the O ring over the spacer hugging it?

 

[Dirk]

I don't know how it was. When I took it apart the o-rings and the spacer were all sort of mixed and pinched together. So I am now pretty sure the o-rings don't stretch over the spacer, as it wouldn't fit back into the "tunnel." I think they're supposed to be stacked, as you say. But I'm not sure of the order. My valve has it's handle on top, so the shaft is perpendicular to the ground. Is it:

o-ring
o-ring
spacer
raised portion

OR

o-ring
spacer
o-ring
raised portion

OR

spacer
o-ring
o-ring
raised portion

 

[Dirk]

Found it. I didn't look far enough down the google results before. All I had found until now was diagrams not showing the raised portion, nor a third ring. This looks to be what I have, which means I did it wrong, darn it. It's:
o-ring
spacer
o-ring
raised portion

Perhaps this is a difference between the Jandy and Pentair diverters. Compool, actually. Is Compool Pentair?

 

[Dirk]

My bad. The valve is Pentair. The actuator is Compool. OK, lesson learned. Find the right video and/or diagram for your actual part, not "something close."

 

[ajw22]

Pentair bought Compool.

Compool = Pentair now.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sorry I didn’t see this earlier. I’ve rebuilt many.

It’s a split ring spacer. It’s a cheap way of making a rotational seal using two o-rings and split plastic spacer between them. It allows the shaft to rotate one o-ring in opposition to the other. If the o-rings are in intimate contact, they would shred each other apart after a few rotations. By separating them with the plastic split ring, and adding lots of silicone lube, the o-rings can seal against their respective surfaces and rotate more freely.

Many techs make the mistake of dropping the split ring or throwing it away thinking it’s not useful and then they seal it up with either oversized o-rings or lots of lube. That just makes the valve “more serviceable” and/or let’s them sell you a new one because the old one “is too far gone” …

 

[Dirk]

Something seems weird. I found a bunch of diagrams, Never-Lube I presume, plus the two videos I watched, all showing two o-rings, no spacer. Seems only my Pentair valve has the spacer. Your explanation, Matt, makes perfect sense. If the bottom o-ring is seated on the diverter (the moving part), and the top o-ring is pressed up against the cap (the non-moving part), then every time the diverter moves, the two o-rings would be dragging across each other. So the spacer is a slicker surface, I suppose, eliminating a lot of the friction (o-ring against plastic, instead of o-ring against o-ring). All good. Except the Jandy valves seem to have no spacer, just the two o-rings, up against each other. So how come one company does it one way, the other another way? Which is better?

When I disassembled my leaking valve, the o-rings were pretty shreded, and/or pinched. I slid off the o-rings without first noticing what order everything was in, or that there even was a spacer, because based on the [wrong] videos I watched, I wasn't expecting to find a spacer, only two o-rings.

So when these o-rings go bad, is this what they do, what they look like? All smashed and deformed? (See pic above.)

I guess the weirdest part, to me, is that they're using o-rings at all. Is that the best way to seal a moving part that has to penetrate a non-moving part? When I think o-ring, I think two stationary parts that both press on the o-ring to create a seal. The only time anything moves against anything else is when first assembled, which is what the lube is for. If one of those parts is regularly moving, then in essence the o-ring is serving as a bearing! A rubber bearing!? No wonder they need periodic replacing...

Ironic: they call them "never lube," and I guess they're referring to the diverter component that blocks the pipe, but in reality they are anything but "lube-less" because the components that are most responsible for making the valve water-tight have to be heavily lubed! Like I said... weird.