Need help making decision - Pool Pump Motor Died

[johnway2]

Went out to turn on my pump to backwash and it's dead. Need some help deciding best way to get pool up and running again.
Equipment
I have a 5 year old Hayward SP2610X152S Super Pump 1.5 HP Pool Pump, Dual-Speed. My digital timer is a 5 year old Intermatic P1353ME using Mode 4 (for dual speed pumps).

Pool Condition
We never shut down our pool. Pool has been running this season on routine 8-12 hours a day using both Hi and Low Speed. Pump was working fine, but we had a lot of steady rain (4 inches in one day) and it was in the middle of the rain when I went out to backwash.

Problem Description

• I opened the Intermatic panel and pushed the button for high speed and I heard a click, the display changed to show that the circuit had been turned on, but the pump did not start running.
• I tested the other three circuits and they all behaved the same way.
• I manually connected my booster pump to 220v power and it runs fine.
• I manually connected the Hayward pump to 220v, but the motor does not run on either hi or low speed.
• I did check to make sure the impeller was not blocked and even disconnected it from the pump housing.

Options (in my mind)

• Fix current system
  • Have motor looked out to see if it can be repaired ($???)
  • Purchase new motor - SP1610Z2MSC7 ($518)
  • Purchase new Intermatic ($322)
• Upgrade entire system
  • Purchase new complete pump ($1000 - $1650)

I can do my own installation. We have 1.5" plumbing suction and return. Equipment is on level with pool and ~ 10-15 ft from nearest skimmer. No water features. See signature for more info.

Questions

• It is hard for me to determine which Hayward pump to buy (Tri-Star; Super Pump, MaxFlo)
• Is repairing a motor risky? In other words, is it as good as new or is the life expectancy diminished? Could it be something simple like a capacitor or blown fuse?
• Is the Super Pump / Dual Speed Motor outdated? Seems like everything is variable speed now.

Thanks in advance for any help!
John

 

[HermanTX]

In the interim you can purchase a submersible pump and set it in the deep end and put exit hose in shallow end to circulate the water. Add liquid chlorine to keep it sanitize since your SWCG is not operating.

I would try the capacitor. With a 2 speed pump you may have a dual start/run capacitor. Check what is on your motor.

There are new regulations that went into effect that require all new and replacement pumps should be variable speed for the main circulation pump. If you can just replace the motor you should be OK.
A VS pump will lower your energy costs but as you see will have a big upfront cost. Some electric companies give a rebate if you purchase a VS pump, so check around with the pool stores what they know For your area.

Your timer may be OK - can you test that with the booster pump that you know is working?

 

[1poolman1]

Went out to turn on my pump to backwash and it's dead. Need some help deciding best way to get pool up and running again.
Equipment
I have a 5 year old Hayward SP2610X152S Super Pump 1.5 HP Pool Pump, Dual-Speed. My digital timer is a 5 year old Intermatic P1353ME using Mode 4 (for dual speed pumps).

Pool Condition
We never shut down our pool. Pool has been running this season on routine 8-12 hours a day using both Hi and Low Speed. Pump was working fine, but we had a lot of steady rain (4 inches in one day) and it was in the middle of the rain when I went out to backwash.

Problem Description

• I opened the Intermatic panel and pushed the button for high speed and I heard a click, the display changed to show that the circuit had been turned on, but the pump did not start running.
• I tested the other three circuits and they all behaved the same way.
• I manually connected my booster pump to 220v power and it runs fine.
• I manually connected the Hayward pump to 220v, but the motor does not run on either hi or low speed.
• I did check to make sure the impeller was not blocked and even disconnected it from the pump housing.

Options (in my mind)

• Fix current system
  • Have motor looked out to see if it can be repaired ($???)
  • Purchase new motor - SP1610Z2MSC7 ($518)
  • Purchase new Intermatic ($322)
• Upgrade entire system
  • Purchase new complete pump ($1000 - $1650)

I can do my own installation. We have 1.5" plumbing suction and return. Equipment is on level with pool and ~ 10-15 ft from nearest skimmer. No water features. See signature for more info.

Questions

• It is hard for me to determine which Hayward pump to buy (Tri-Star; Super Pump, MaxFlo)
• Is repairing a motor risky? In other words, is it as good as new or is the life expectancy diminished? Could it be something simple like a capacitor or blown fuse?
• Is the Super Pump / Dual Speed Motor outdated? Seems like everything is variable speed now.

Thanks in advance for any help!
John

First be aware that anytime you are actually doing anything with the wiring after a P1353ME, the power must be shut off first. One leg of the power is always hot to anything connected to that clock.
You need to find out if there is power coming from the time clock. You can do it with an inexpensive VOM if you have one.
If not, hook the Circuit 3 Load terminal wire that goes to the booster to the Circuit 1 Load terminal and activate it, the booster should come on immediately. Running the booster dry for a brief amount of time won't damage it.
If it does run, turn the power off and reattach the wire to Circuit 3, activate Circuit 1 then Circuit 3. If the booster comes on after a short delay, the clock should be good.
You can use a Century ECM16CU or a EVC165 motor to make your pump variable speed. They both will work with your time clock (after the proper mode is set). If you can get the former (there are still some available) get it. The programming is much easier. Century has some good YouTube videos on how to use these motors with a time clock. They will only cost slightly more than a 2-speed motor.
After that, the Intermatic can be re-wired to "break" both legs of the power to the pumps and the mode set to Mode 5. A good electrician can follow the wiring diagram in the manual to do that.

 

[johnway2]

First be aware that anytime you are actually doing anything with the wiring after a P1353ME, the power must be shut off first. One leg of the power is always hot to anything connected to that clock.
You need to find out if there is power coming from the time clock. You can do it with an inexpensive VOM if you have one.
If not, hook the Circuit 3 Load terminal wire that goes to the booster to the Circuit 1 Load terminal and activate it, the booster should come on immediately. Running the booster dry for a brief amount of time won't damage it.
If it does run, turn the power off and reattach the wire to Circuit 3, activate Circuit 1 then Circuit 3. If the booster comes on after a short delay, the clock should be good.
You can use a Century ECM16CU or a EVC165 motor to make your pump variable speed. They both will work with your time clock (after the proper mode is set). If you can get the former (there are still some available) get it. The programming is much easier. Century has some good YouTube videos on how to use these motors with a time clock. They will only cost slightly more than a 2-speed motor.
After that, the Intermatic can be re-wired to "break" both legs of the power to the pumps and the mode set to Mode 5. A good electrician can follow the wiring diagram in the manual to do that.

I apologize up front if I'm not following or if I was unclear in my post. My issue is that the motor for my Hayward Pump is not working at all. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the booster pump as it is not relevant to my issue. It is a separate pump/motor that isn't being used and only pumps water to the pool cleaner outlet and I don't have that type of pool cleaner any more. I have tested the P1353ME and there is no power coming from any of the 3 circuits. I did have a thought... I will factory reset the device and see if that fixes it.

 

[johnway2]

In the interim you can purchase a submersible pump and set it in the deep end and put exit hose in shallow end to circulate the water. Add liquid chlorine to keep it sanitize since your SWCG is not operating.

I would try the capacitor. With a 2 speed pump you may have a dual start/run capacitor. Check what is on your motor.

There are new regulations that went into effect that require all new and replacement pumps should be variable speed for the main circulation pump. If you can just replace the motor you should be OK.
A VS pump will lower your energy costs but as you see will have a big upfront cost. Some electric companies give a rebate if you purchase a VS pump, so check around with the pool stores what they know For your area.

Your timer may be OK - can you test that with the booster pump that you know is working?

Good to know on the new regulations. I'm looking at close to $900 to replace the existing equipment, so I may as well move up to the VS. I checked on the rebate. It requires a contractor to install it and there are no contractors listed for my area. :-(

 

[1poolman1]

I apologize up front if I'm not following or if I was unclear in my post. My issue is that the motor for my Hayward Pump is not working at all. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the booster pump as it is not relevant to my issue. It is a separate pump/motor that isn't being used and only pumps water to the pool cleaner outlet and I don't have that type of pool cleaner any more. I have tested the P1353ME and there is no power coming from any of the 3 circuits. I did have a thought... I will factory reset the device and see if that fixes it.

Sounds like you may have two issues, a bad motor and a bad time clock. That is what my recommendation was designed to help you find out. Not sure how experienced you are with the actual working of the P1353ME, but when trying buttons, some aren't aware that with the timer in the 2-speed + cleaner mode (Mode 4), it has to have Circuit 1 on and when circuit 3 is activated it takes a short time before it will actually close the relay and the booster will start.

 

[johnway2]

Sounds like you may have two issues, a bad motor and a bad time clock. That is what my recommendation was designed to help you find out. Not sure how experienced you are with the actual working of the P1353ME, but when trying buttons, some aren't aware that with the timer in the 2-speed + cleaner mode (Mode 4), it has to have Circuit 1 on and when circuit 3 is activated it takes a short time before it will actually close the relay and the booster will start.

OK... I got it now. I ran across the retrofit option on the Inyo site that listed the same Century VS options you mentioned. I am fairly familiar with P1353ME. I did switch back to Mode 1 (3 independent circuits with no time delay) before I did my testing... I'm pretty sure something is messed up, but I am going to try a factory reset to be sure.

 

[1poolman1]

OK... I got it now. I ran across the retrofit option on the Inyo site that listed the same Century VS options you mentioned. I am fairly familiar with P1353ME. I did switch back to Mode 1 (3 independent circuits with no time delay) before I did my testing... I'm pretty sure something is messed up, but I am going to try a factory reset to be sure.

How are you testing voltage at the timeclock?

 

[johnway2]

How are you testing voltage at the timeclock?

Switched 2 Mode 1 (3 independent circuits with no time delay). Switch each circuit "on" and check with voltmeter (ACV) across Load / Line terminals.

 

[1poolman1]

Switched 2 Mode 1 (3 independent circuits with no time delay). Switch each circuit "on" and check with voltmeter (ACV) across Load / Line terminals.

Testing across line to load will equal zero voltage. You need to test from line one to line two. Or, with the circuit active test from load to ground to see if you have 120V. That will tell you if the relays are closing. Not sure how yours is wired, but usually the line side of each circuit is jumped from terminal 1 to 3, 5, 7 and the other leg of the 240V is attached to terminal 2. Test from each active load terminal to terminal 2 to see if there is 240V.

 

[johnway2]

How are you testing voltage at the timeclock?

Sooooo. I'm hoping I can get away with not using the P1353ME at all (since it's broken) and just use one of the options you suggested (thanks by the way... I hadn't considered upgrading to VS as an option) Those VS motors appear to have some built in timer / programming functionality, but one of the sites that sells the EVC165 has an * comment that says," *Requires a Timer or Automation System for the on/off feature, it does not provide full functionality with automation systems." (Century (A.O. Smith) V-Green EVO 1.65 HP Up Rate VS Motor, Round Flange 56J Frame, Variable Speed - Model EVC165 - INYOPools.com) I did find the ECM16CU, so if I can go with that and no additional timers, that sounds like the best plan for me.
Also, another confusing issue is the Frame listed on the motor. The options you suggested and most everything I see has a 56J frame, but mine has Y48C. I have not seen that exact Frame anywhere, but I have seen some 48Y references. I've also seen options for a C flange and a SQUARE flange... so confusing, but I'm trying!

 

[1poolman1]

Sooooo. I'm hoping I can get away with not using the P1353ME at all (since it's broken) and just use one of the options you suggested (thanks by the way... I hadn't considered upgrading to VS as an option) Those VS motors appear to have some built in timer / programming functionality, but one of the sites that sells the EVC165 has an * comment that says," *Requires a Timer or Automation System for the on/off feature, it does not provide full functionality with automation systems." (Century (A.O. Smith) V-Green EVO 1.65 HP Up Rate VS Motor, Round Flange 56J Frame, Variable Speed - Model EVC165 - INYOPools.com) I did find the ECM16CU, so if I can go with that and no additional timers, that sounds like the best plan for me.

To begin with, I think your existing Intermatic clock is working properly.

To have complete control on the ECM16CU, you will need a separate timeclock. It has a built-in timer/programming that only begins to run at the moment power is applied, just like the EVO. So, if you want your program to start at a specific time, you must either be there to apply power at that time and never turn the power off, or use a time clock, even a mechanical one like an Intermatic T104M that will fit in place of your P1353ME. Go to Century's website to for a link to a YouTube video on how it works (or just go to YouTube and look up V-Green 165, you'll find it).

If you don't want to use a separate time clock, get a Nidec Neptune NPTT165 motor. It has a built in timeclock/timer making it stand alone. Good motor, just installed another last Friday. Otherwise, to get complete control, you will need to get a complete new pump.

 

[johnway2]

Testing across line to load will equal zero voltage. You need to test from line one to line two. Or, with the circuit active test from load to ground to see if you have 120V. That will tell you if the relays are closing. Not sure how yours is wired, but usually the line side of each circuit is jumped from terminal 1 to 3, 5, 7 and the other leg of the 240V is attached to terminal 2. Test from each active load terminal to terminal 2 to see if there is 240V.

Wow... I was way off. That makes way more sense. So, I had disconnected all the wires accept for the 2 input wires (220v), so now I realize I need to reconnect power to the line side of the circuits, as you said (jumped from 1 to 3,5,7)... then test again as you stated. SMH

 

[johnway2]

To begin with, I think your existing Intermatic clock is working properly.

To have complete control on the ECM16CU, you will need a separate timeclock. It has a built-in timer/programming that only begins to run at the moment power is applied, just like the EVO. So, if you want your program to start at a specific time, you must either be there to apply power at that time and never turn the power off, or use a time clock, even a mechanical one like an Intermatic T104M that will fit in place of your P1353ME. Go to Century's website to for a link to a YouTube video on how it works (or just go to YouTube and look up V-Green 165, you'll find it).

If you don't want to use a separate time clock, get a Nidec Neptune NPTT165 motor. It has a built in timeclock/timer making it stand alone. Good motor, just installed another last Friday. Otherwise, to get complete control, you will need to get a complete new pump.

You were absolutely correct. Nothing wrong with the Intermatic... just with the "electrician". :-(
Ok, so I think I'm going with the ECM16CU... my only concern is that everything will line up with my current pump. I will attach photos of my pump and motor plates. I feel like I'm overcomplicating this, but I want to make sure I get it right the first time.

Do I need the suggested impeller and tune up kit that comes with the EVC165? Hayward Super Pump VS Motor Upgrade Kit - 1.65HP - MKIT3VS16 - INYOPools.com

 

[1poolman1]

You were absolutely correct. Nothing wrong with the Intermatic... just with the "electrician". :-(
Ok, so I think I'm going with the ECM16CU... my only concern is that everything will line up with my current pump. I will attach photos of my pump and motor plates. I feel like I'm overcomplicating this, but I want to make sure I get it right the first time.

Do I need the suggested impeller and tune up kit that comes with the EVC165?

Will bolt right on, done it many times. Be sure to get a GO kit with the needed seal and O rings/gaskets. I believe it is GOKIT3, but wherever you are getting your motor, if it is a pool supply, should have one. Watch the YouTube video on how to set up the system. The link below will reference a mechanical clock, just substitute the info for your clock and set the times accordingly.

 

[johnway2]

Will bolt right on, done it many times. Be sure to get a GO kit with the needed seal and O rings/gaskets. I believe it is GOKIT3, but wherever you are getting your motor, if it is a pool supply, should have one. Watch the YouTube video on how to set up the system. The link below will reference a mechanical clock, just substitute the info for your clock and set the times accordingly.

Thank you so much for your help!!