My Yellow Mustard Experience- Still working On it...

[Ladybird]

To start, I have a great test kit and all my regents are less than a year old. I also have a degree in chemistry and environmental biology so when I tell you I have mustard algae please believe me. What I am not an expert on is pools, as I have only owned mine for a year and up to this point it has mainly been trouble free. Trouble free to the point I wonder why people waste money on a pool guy. Ha. But this algae is a new experience and I haven't seen a lot of real world advice that worked. I am going to post my story and if you have advice I'd like to hear it. Or at least it is a data point for people with the same problem.

After the winter, the rains came and my pool filled to the top (I don't have an overflow drain, it just washes out over the coping). The salt levels were diluted and the salt generator kicked off. Instead of adding salt, I just gave it a week to evaporate, but the chlorine dropped down to about 1 ppm and on came the algae. I half heartedly fought it, by raising my chlorine to 5ppm and brushing everything twice daily for about 2 weeks. No I did not get in the freezing 60 degree water to get behind my 2 tiny LED lights. The algae just got stronger and waved at me when I walked by.

I thought maybe I would take the easy way out and I bought some Yellow Gone. I know better than to use anything with copper, but what harm could Yellow Gone do? I followed the instructions to a tee with the exception that my pH was 7.5 (not 7.8) But when I started my alkalinity was 80, cya was 55ish, and chlorine was lowered to 3 (it calls for 2, but I was impatient). Nada. The algae just laughed at me.

Not one to quit, even if it means destroying all of my rubber gaskets and plastic parts, I rolled up my sleeves and decided to assert dominance. My salt generator is way oversized an can raise the salt levels ridiculously high with the push of a button so I took it to 10 ppm and brushed 3 times a day for 2 days. The algae just keep on keepin on. Alright, I took it to 15 and brushed the whole dang pool 3 times a day for like3 days. The only progress I noted was that I really needed to only brush about 1-2 a day now. This is when I stopped letting my dog go near the thing for fear she would drink it, and I upped it again.

Now I'm at 23ppm. I can all hear you yelling at me (but I tried your 5ppm without result). And yesterday was crazy so I didn't get a chance to brush it. And guess what? There was no algae on my steps or my hot tub, or my shallow end or really even in my middle depths. Which is an improvement. I still have it in my deep end though. And still pretty thick in the 6 ft parts near the drain and it really loves the top of a low step I have in the deep end. I had read a chart that said I might need to take it to 25 if my CYA was 50. I'm thinking it was right. This might be a CYA dependent battle. And we all keep our CYA high here on the trouble free pool site right?

My current plan is to just keep raising it till I don't get any regrowth and then keep it there for 24-48 hours before I lower it. Anyone have any productive or helpful thoughts? Is my pool equipment shot for sure? Is there a different way? Water here is worth the price of gold, so I am not draining anything. I'd rather swim with algae.

As of this morning my pH is 7.5 (My pool runs closer to 8, but I have been adding acid this whole time keeping it closer to 7.4), my Chlorine is 23ppm and my CC is .5. My Alkalinity has dropped to 60ppm. My Calcium Hardness is 400, My CYA is 50ish. Pool water is sitting around 74 degrees. Pool water is crystal clear (minus the algae on the bottom/walls). The skies are cloudy this whole time. I have keep all my pool equipment in the water to help it sanitize between uses and no one has been swimming with contaminated clothes etc. given the water would probably melt your skin off The hot tub overflows into the pool and uses the same water and is getting the same brushing treatment. Skimmer baskets have been cleared and washed. Any other ideas beside this hike up the chlorine mountain? Any suggestions on how long to hold it high once I see no new algae?

Thanks,
Ladybird

 

[Ladybird]

 

[Bperry]

To start, I have a great test kit and all my regents are less than a year old. I also have a degree in chemistry and environmental biology so when I tell you I have mustard algae please believe me. What I am not an expert on is pools, as I have only owned mine for a year and up to this point it has mainly been trouble free. Trouble free to the point I wonder why people waste money on a pool guy. Ha. But this algae is a new experience and I haven't seen a lot of real world advice that worked. I am going to post my story and if you have advice I'd like to hear it. Or at least it is a data point for people with the same problem.

After the winter, the rains came and my pool filled to the top (I don't have an overflow drain, it just washes out over the coping). The salt levels were diluted and the salt generator kicked off. Instead of adding salt, I just gave it a week to evaporate, but the chlorine dropped down to about 1 ppm and on came the algae. I half heartedly fought it, by raising my chlorine to 5ppm and brushing everything twice daily for about 2 weeks. No I did not get in the freezing 60 degree water to get behind my 2 tiny LED lights. The algae just got stronger and waved at me when I walked by.

I thought maybe I would take the easy way out and I bought some Yellow Gone. I know better than to use anything with copper, but what harm could Yellow Gone do? I followed the instructions to a tee with the exception that my pH was 7.5 (not 7.8) But when I started my alkalinity was 80, cya was 55ish, and chlorine was lowered to 3 (it calls for 2, but I was impatient). Nada. The algae just laughed at me.

Not one to quit, even if it means destroying all of my rubber gaskets and plastic parts, I rolled up my sleeves and decided to assert dominance. My salt generator is way oversized an can raise the salt levels ridiculously high with the push of a button so I took it to 10 ppm and brushed 3 times a day for 2 days. The algae just keep on keepin on. Alright, I took it to 15 and brushed the whole dang pool 3 times a day for like3 days. The only progress I noted was that I really needed to only brush about 1-2 a day now. This is when I stopped letting my dog go near the thing for fear she would drink it, and I upped it again.

Now I'm at 23ppm. I can all hear you yelling at me (but I tried your 5ppm without result). And yesterday was crazy so I didn't get a chance to brush it. And guess what? There was no algae on my steps or my hot tub, or my shallow end or really even in my middle depths. Which is an improvement. I still have it in my deep end though. And still pretty thick in the 6 ft parts near the drain and it really loves the top of a low step I have in the deep end. I had read a chart that said I might need to take it to 25 if my CYA was 50. I'm thinking it was right. This might be a CYA dependent battle. And we all keep our CYA high here on the trouble free pool site right?

My current plan is to just keep raising it till I don't get any regrowth and then keep it there for 24-48 hours before I lower it. Anyone have any productive or helpful thoughts? Is my pool equipment shot for sure? Is there a different way? Water here is worth the price of gold, so I am not draining anything. I'd rather swim with algae.

As of this morning my pH is 7.5 (My pool runs closer to 8, but I have been adding acid this whole time keeping it closer to 7.4), my Chlorine is 23ppm and my CC is .5. My Alkalinity has dropped to 60ppm. My Calcium Hardness is 400, My CYA is 50ish. Pool water is sitting around 74 degrees. Pool water is crystal clear (minus the algae on the bottom/walls). The skies are cloudy this whole time. I have keep all my pool equipment in the water to help it sanitize between uses and no one has been swimming with contaminated clothes etc. given the water would probably melt your skin off The hot tub overflows into the pool and uses the same water and is getting the same brushing treatment. Skimmer baskets have been cleared and washed. Any other ideas beside this hike up the chlorine mountain? Any suggestions on how long to hold it high once I see no new algae?

Thanks,
Ladybird

Welcome! Which test kit do you have? You just need to follow the SLAM process, which is dependant on your CYA level. Heres the instructions:

SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain

We’ve all had to deal with a green pool. Clear algae from your pool with a SLAM! Read here to use shock level and maintain to clear your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

Also, you probably dont have mustard algae (with all due respect), youre just underchlorinating the water, possibly due to not following the FC/CYA chart below:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

Hey LB and Welcome !!!

haven't seen a lot of real world advice that worked.

Because it sucks. And it's a neverending source of new members for us.

You're in good hands now but we'll need to start from scratch because 'they' filled your head with crud.

Read up on the Pool Care Basics and ask away if we need to fill in any blanks.

 

[Bperry]

I thought maybe I would take the easy way out and I bought some Yellow Gone. I know better than to use anything with copper, but what harm could Yellow Gone do? I followed

Forgot to add, Yellow Out is ammonium sulphate. You dont want ammonia or sulphates in the water as ammonia eats chlorine which you need to fight algae and sulphates will corrode equipment like your SWCG. I wouldnt advise using it anymore. Algaecides arent very useful once an algae outbreak has occurred.

 

[kul]

Have you been cleaning your filter during this slam?
Have you been doing OCLTs?
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

Also note that ph readings can be inaccurate when chlorine is 10+ so I would refrain from adding acid unless you are sure about your ph reading. I see on your pool logs that you had to add baking soda to adjust TA so you maybe adding too much MA by mistake.

 

[Ladybird]

Okay here's some answers to your follow up questions. I am very grateful to those who took the time to respond.
1) I have the TF-Pro Testing Kit.
2) I did underchlorinated the water after the rain which resulted in algae. I agree.
3) I am not currently under chlorinating the water, nor have I been for several weeks now. I mean its sitting at 23ppm right now. Its ridiculously high. Embarrassingly high. The FC Chart you reference suggests 3-8ppm.
4) As far as the Yellow Out escapade, I read the ammonia changes the chlorine to chloramines which are more effective in killing mustard algae than straight chlorine and I thought- well, I'll try it. But yup, I just poured $20 in the pool to no result, so I'm on board with the No Yellow Out plan from here on out.
5) Did not know the fun fact about pH reading being inaccurate during a slam. Got it. Follow up question- if algae dies at lower pH and my pool normally drifts up to 8 and my flawed pH readings are drifting up...I just ignore it and don't add acid? I'm willing to give it a try...
6) Before I started this super slam, I did have a low Total alkalinity (reference all the rain water added right before this started). In order to balance the pool a little better before I started, I did add Baking soda. It brought up the total alkalinity (1 hr after adding it was 100, 1 day after adding it was 80, two days after I started SLAMing. Alkalinity has hovered around 60 since then...clearly I need to look into this more after I finish the SLAM.)
7) I have not touched my cartridge filter. At first I thought maybe I needed to clean it, but then I thought well its full of this super chlorinated water-that should be killing everything inside the filter too right? Its a pentair Clean and Clear Plus. It has a little gauge at the top labeled "start pressure" at 10 psi and "clean filter" at 20psi. My current reading for pressure is 14. So am I wrong to think I don't need to clean it at this exact moment? Maybe wait till the slam is over?
8) I have not run an overnight test chlorine loss test because (and I see here from your articles that I should have shut my salt chlorine generator off) I have had my chlorine generator running day and night so every morning my levels are higher than the night before because of the chlorine generation. I could shut it down and switch to liquid chlorine. That is how I got my initial levels up. But I figured, a steady output of chlorine would be more lethal to the algae than the 12 hour liquid dump...thoughts? I mean I know it says liquid, but why? And at the end of the day I may be destroying the equipment, but to the algae chlorine is chlorine, so why isn't the dang stuff dead?

Okay so there's some answers for you. Anyone with next steps?

 

[JJ_Tex]

3) I am not currently under chlorinating the water, nor have I been for several weeks now. I mean its sitting at 23ppm right now. Its ridiculously high. Embarrassingly high. The FC Chart you reference suggests 3-8ppm.

Make sure you are reading the chart correctly. You said your CYA was 55, so we round up to 60. That means you should be at 24 for a SLAM, which is to kill the algae. So its not ridiculously/embarrassingly high, its actually a tad low for a SLAM.

Your next steps are below, beginning with a SLAM (those instructions are linked in the article below) until you see no algae and pass the criteria to end the SLAM. But for yellow algae, assuming that is what you have, the last 24 hours will be an even higher chlorine number to finish off the yellow algae and make sure it is dead and gone.

Mustard Algae

Today We are going to show you how you can get rid of mustard algae in your pool. By following the steps in this guide and with no expensive chemicals.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Okay here's some answers to your follow up questions. I am very grateful to those who took the time to respond.
1) I have the TF-Pro Testing Kit.
2) I did underchlorinated the water after the rain which resulted in algae. I agree.
3) I am not currently under chlorinating the water, nor have I been for several weeks now. I mean its sitting at 23ppm right now. Its ridiculously high. Embarrassingly high. The FC Chart you reference suggests 3-8ppm.
4) As far as the Yellow Out escapade, I read the ammonia changes the chlorine to chloramines which are more effective in killing mustard algae than straight chlorine and I thought- well, I'll try it. But yup, I just poured $20 in the pool to no result, so I'm on board with the No Yellow Out plan from here on out.
5) Did not know the fun fact about pH reading being inaccurate during a slam. Got it. Follow up question- if algae dies at lower pH and my pool normally drifts up to 8 and my flawed pH readings are drifting up...I just ignore it and don't add acid? I'm willing to give it a try...
6) Before I started this super slam, I did have a low Total alkalinity (reference all the rain water added right before this started). In order to balance the pool a little better before I started, I did add Baking soda. It brought up the total alkalinity (1 hr after adding it was 100, 1 day after adding it was 80, two days after I started SLAMing. Alkalinity has hovered around 60 since then...clearly I need to look into this more after I finish the SLAM.)
7) I have not touched my cartridge filter. At first I thought maybe I needed to clean it, but then I thought well its full of this super chlorinated water-that should be killing everything inside the filter too right? Its a pentair Clean and Clear Plus. It has a little gauge at the top labeled "start pressure" at 10 psi and "clean filter" at 20psi. My current reading for pressure is 14. So am I wrong to think I don't need to clean it at this exact moment? Maybe wait till the slam is over?
8) I have not run an overnight test chlorine loss test because (and I see here from your articles that I should have shut my salt chlorine generator off) I have had my chlorine generator running day and night so every morning my levels are higher than the night before because of the chlorine generation. I could shut it down and switch to liquid chlorine. That is how I got my initial levels up. But I figured, a steady output of chlorine would be more lethal to the algae than the 12 hour liquid dump...thoughts? I mean I know it says liquid, but why? And at the end of the day I may be destroying the equipment, but to the algae chlorine is chlorine, so why isn't the dang stuff dead?

Okay so there's some answers for you. Anyone with next steps?

Just to complement the reply above….Yep, SLAM. Read the article carefully. To summarize it, increase and keep your FC at 24ppm (replenish it multiple times per day as necessary) until the algae is gone. (Click the “SLAM” option on the chart to see where 24ppm came from) Run the pump/filter 24x7 and brush the pool. Then you can do the OCLT and CC tests to make sure you’re done. The special mustard algae protocol can be done after that just in case.

Some people find it helpful to take pictures of the water each day so you can actually see the progress. You can post them here and we’ll cheer for your progress.

 

[reggiehammond]

5) Did not know the fun fact about pH reading being inaccurate during a slam. Got it. Follow up question- if algae dies at lower pH and my pool normally drifts up to 8 and my flawed pH readings are drifting up...I just ignore it and don't add acid? I'm willing to give it a try...

Just a few comments:
1) Chlorine kills algae. There's nothing else to think about. The FC/CYA relationship is crucial to understanding the necessary sanitizing levels needed.

2) You're not on a "super slam" nor do you likely need anything unique. You need to slow down a bit, and focus on maintaining a proper SLAM.

Can you post a full set of results, ignoring pH? It's crucial to have the data present to help. In regards to mustard algae - every year, someone insists they have it, but through further investigation, we find numerous other issues, and end up where the normal SLAM process for plain algae is successful. The TFP process is very easy, but it's hard to grasp when new. when frustrated, or when you think your situation is different than the 100's of other people in the exact same situation.

SLAM Process
FC/CYA Levels

 

[cwswifty]

I also have a degree in chemistry and environmental biology so when I tell you I have mustard algae please believe me.

Can you tell us about the process you went through to confirm that your algae was of the mustard variety?

 

[Ladybird]

First a huge thank you to everyone who contributed with time, patience and explanations to me. I think where I was going wrong is my understanding of how much chlorine is needed in general when you have CYA of 50-60. Everything I had seen was like never go above 5ppm. So I was in what I thought was uncharted waters (hardy har) by raising it higher than that. I'm not entirely sure how I missed the info about raising your chlorine in the 20+ ppm range as okay, but thank you for directing me to that.

As it stands now, after reading the previous posts on Wednesday I immediate brought the chlorine up to about 27ppm. Thursday night I was getting less, but still significant growth so I upped the pool to 30 ppm last night. This morning I still have some "fresh" looking spots but I would guesstimate about 95-98% is gone.

Someone asked how I know it's mustard algae. I guess I don't know with 100% certainty. But, I didn't really want to argue with people about it, I just wanted to be directed to solutions, and I was, so thank you. But now that I feel like I've got this more under control I'd be happy to offer the basis for my opinion. Also as a side note, our pool is 50 feet from an algae cover pond with multiple birds dipping in and out of the pond and pool. But this was the basis: 1) It had the right color and visual appearance. 2) It felt slimy not squishy. 3) I have a sand pit, yes, but the bulky of the algae was on the shady side and furthest from the sand pit and also I have not had sand problems before. 4) We definitely have a pollen season here, but I have a very dark outdoor table that shows pollen easily and it has remained pretty pollen free during this time. 5) It was on my walls, not just my floor. 6) Scrubbing it sort of created a cloud, but didn't get rid of it from the surface. I could brush and brush and brush and there was always more there like it was rather sticky to the surface. 7) It was mainly in the shady/ deep areas till the weather turned cloudy/misty for a week and then it evenly coated the whole pool. As the sun has come up and the chlorine levels have risen, it has died off the sunny areas first and remained defiant in the shaded areas.

That said, always down to look into things further I dusted off my trusty closet microscope this morning just to see if I could see it. But since I am almost at the end of the SLAM (fingers crossed) and had just brushed the pool when I got this clever idea and because most of what I have left at this point is near the bottom, my collection methods I think were unsuccessful. I will try again at the end of the day before I brush. My husband walked in when I was searching some water slides at the breakfast table and asked what I was doing. When I told him I was looking for algae, he burst out laughing. So at least there is some good fun in this hunt to kill algae adventure.

Thanks again everyone! And If I manage to find algae on a slide, I will let you know

 

[PoolGate]

24 is not super super high in fact, you could safely swim in it.

 

[proavia]

Raising the FC level above SLAM Process level for your CYA isn't doing you or your pool any good.
The SLAM Process is based on science and has been proven to work - if you actually follow the process.
Adding excess chlorine above what the SLAM Process advises is a waste of chlorine and can actually damage equipment. Stick with the SLAM Process and follow it to the letter.

No second guessing.
Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Be patient.
Be precise in your testing.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers)and test kit info.
Be detailed - pumps, filter, heater, automation, how you typically chlorinate, etc,
This assists us in providing you help without having to ask you each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature