My turn to deal with "No Cell Power 2" issue

[creator2000]

Hello TFP community
Looking for some additional advice on this issue. Thanks to this forum, I was able to troubleshoot my "No Cell Power 2" problem little over a year ago.
Re-soldering burned contact didn't work and I ended up replacing the relay. Repair process went well and system was up and running again.
Fast forward about 12 months and the problem has returned. This time re-soldering the "famous" relay works, but the fix only lasts a few days before I see "No Cell Power 2" message and have to re-solder again.
One other thing I should mention, the power supply on the right (the transformer, I guess that's what it's called) runs extremely hot. It's so hot that the entire box is almost too hot to hold my hand for a period of time. Could tat be the main reason for what I'm dealing with?
Any help / advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mas985]

When it is was working, what was the displayed salt level and current? I find that keeping the salt level near the bottom range, ~2900 ppm, keeps current levels down and heat down to a minimum.

Resoldering multiple times can lift the trace and there may not enough trace to properly solder to so the resistance can be higher than it should be. You might try a jumper wire from the relay to the circuit board. Can you post a picture of the solder joint?

 

[creator2000]

Thanks for your reply @mas985
Just went out there to fix the issue again. Here's the photo - a little blurry, but you get the idea. I try to clean the area a little every time I re-solder. Just don't understand why the issue keeps coming back - seems like a major design flaw since so many of us are having the same problem!



But for now it's fixed again (who knows for how long - maybe a week, maybe two, maybe just a couple of days). And the readings are:



One other thing I should mention - this salt level (3300 PPM) is showing much higher than the actual salt level in the pool according to the water test (multiple water tests in fact). The "real" reading is around 2700 - 2800.

 

[mas985]

Current is near the limit and most likely the cause of your issue. If you were to drop the salt level, it might reduce the incidence of failure.

The "real" reading is around 2700 - 2800.

According to whom or what?

If it is a pool store meter, I would ignore that and get your own test kit. Also, the "real" salt level is somewhat immaterial. What matters is what the unit is "seeing" and the current/amps level.

 

[creator2000]

Appreciate the information @mas985
The pool is currently maintained and serviced by the local pool company, so the salt test lever is something they check every visit. But if I was gonna run my own test, what type of device would you recommend?
And yes, I did notice that with a lower salt readings the amperage goes down a bit.

 

[mas985]

The pool is currently maintained and serviced by the local pool company, so the salt test lever is something they check every visit.

Few on forum use pool companies because most pool companies really don't understand chemistry very well and even their test methods are not very accurate. Plus if you follow the guidelines on the forum, it is very easy to maintain a pool on your own.

As for test kits, we usually recommend the Taylor K-1766.

https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-TECHNOLOGIES-INC-K-1766-CHLORIDE/dp/B001DO35EU/ref=asc_df_B001DO35EU/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167151535350&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14781006185177723686&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032030&hvtargid=pla-313230194306&psc=1

You should also get a FAS-DPD test kit.

https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-TECHNOLOGIES-K-2006-CHLORINE-FAS-DPD/dp/B004BGF7TI/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1LIXLKRBEGXBJ&keywords=FAS+DPD&qid=1667495346&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjk2IiwicXNhIjoiMi40OCIsInFzcCI6IjIuNzUifQ%3D%3D&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=fas+dpd%2Clawngarden%2C163&sr=1-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Or you can get a combo:

TF-Pro Salt

tftestkits.net

 

[Bob Jakob]

Hayward "compatible" cells are notorious for inaccurate salt data. Generic cells produce generic results.

 

[creator2000]

Hayward "compatible" cells are notorious for inaccurate salt data. Generic cells produce generic results.

I hear ya, but I just can't drop another $1000 for a "genuine" Hayward cell that's gonna fail right after the 3-year warranty mark. Already went through 2 of those. As long as it's reading salt higher than what my actual levels are AND produces chlorine, I'm ok with it

 

[Newdude]

I hear ya, but I just can't drop another $1000 for a "genuine" Hayward cell that's gonna fail right after the 3-year warranty mark. Already went through 2 of those. As long as it's reading salt higher than what my actual levels are AND produces chlorine, I'm ok with it

The inaccuracy revolves around how all cells measure the salinity. They use electrical current to determine the conductivity of the water and then calculate that into a ppm measurement. Temperature affects the test and its less accurate than the drop kit. I don't recall any units being better/worse, none of them are good at it.

Unfortunately, you can't argue with the cell reading, even if your drop test knows better. All you can do is get it in range with the drop kit and hope the cell agrees. Then walk away until the cell complains.

 

[creator2000]

Wanted to post a 4-week update. The salt lever went down a bit (we've had some rains, so that definitely helped). It's now showing 2900 and I only had to re-solder contacts once in the last 4 weeks which is a huge improvement.

 

[creator2000]

Hello TFP community ;-)
Hope everyone is having an amazing Summer!

This is a follow up to my original story posted here.
I've been fighting the same issue pretty much the entire 2023 pool season. I've got my salt level to where the system does not overheat too much, but the board would still get messed up once in a while and require me to re-solder that same spot.
But a couple weeks ago I was presented with a new issue. It first started saying "No flow. Chlorinator off" when my pump runs on "low", but once it goes to the "normal" speed the message clears out and it generates chlorine normally, as it should. But a few days later it started saying "low salt", and my salt level tested OK (3300). The diagnostic screen will show 3200 when the chlorinator first powers up and then I see those numbers start dropping and go down to about 1300. And then "low salt" message.
Took my salt cell to the local pool store to get tested and it checked out OK when connected to their system.
Not sure what to troubleshoot next and TBH, at this point I'm ready to ditch my SWG setup and just use the liquid chlorine instead. Putting hundreds of dollars to repair the current system (or putting thousands of dollars to replace it) feels really stupid knowing that there's no reliable equipment currently available on the market (but please correct me if I'm wrong), and both monopolists in the pool industry (Hay and Pent) and basically selling the same unreliable Crud they've been selling for the past few decades (again, if Im missing something here, please point me in the right direction).

 

[mas985]

But a couple weeks ago I was presented with a new issue. It first started saying "No flow. Chlorinator off" when my pump runs on "low", but once it goes to the "normal" speed the message clears out and it generates chlorine normally, as it should.

This could be due to a dirty filter. As the filter gets dirty, head loss increases and flow rate decreases.

But a few days later it started saying "low salt", and my salt level tested OK (3300). The diagnostic screen will show 3200 when the chlorinator first powers up and then I see those numbers start dropping and go down to about 1300. And then "low salt" message.

This can be due to a dirty cell or a failing cell. When is the last time you cleaned the cell?

Took my salt cell to the local pool store to get tested and it checked out OK when connected to their system.

One thing to be aware of that I have found in the past is a cell can be in the process of failing but still pass the pool store tests. So it is not definitive.

To me, the behavior sounds like a failing cell. This is exactly what happened to me the last 3 times a cell has failed.

Next steps

Do you have a Taylor Salt test kit? What does it read?

Inspect and clean the cell.

Do not add any salt because when you replace cell, the salt level could be too high for proper operation.

The cell will continue to operate until average salt goes below 2400 ppm. At this point, you could change the cell type to keep it going. I am doing that now in an experiment here:

Failing T-15 SWG Cell Experiment

I am currently on my 3rd T-15 SWG cell for an 18 year old pool. The 1st cell lasted about 9 years and the 2nd about 4 years and just passed year 4 on the 3rd cell. I thought it might be useful to document this cell's behavior as it is going through the last stages of useful life. As time goes...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

What are the first seven characters of your cell serial numbers?

The Pentair IntelliChlor seems to be much more robust. Its only weak spot is the flow switch/temperature sensor that is easily replaced. It does not have all the electronic problems the Aquarites do.

 

[creator2000]

Thank you for a super fast response time @mas985 and @ajw22!

The cell has been cleaned a few days ago and that made no difference. I'll have to get the exact reading on the salt tomorrow (or as soon as I can make my way to the store to get a refill on the Silver Nitrate - looks like I'm out). And I'll have my filter backwashed too (although the pressure is still showing normal).

My T-15 cell that I'm currently using is an aftermarket cell from saltpoolstore website, and does not have any numbers on it.

The Pentair IntelliChlor - is that something that can still work with my current setup or do I have to change my control box?

 

[ajw22]

An aftermarket cell often has different behaviors then genuine Hayward cells.

You will need to install the IntelliChlor Power Center and the cell to change. Most of the electronics and controls are integrated in the cell which means yiu get all new when you replace the cell. I like that with the IntelliChlor versus the Aquarite where the electronics ages as you replace cells.

 

[creator2000]

Posting an update.
So, it's been confirmed that my salt level is OK (3400) and it's definitely a failing salt cell (and possibly something else is going on with the board).
One more SWCG pool is officially "off the market" and I'm going 100% regular (liquid) chlorine. Thanks again everyone for your help and support