My pool adventure
- Thread starter Optoman
- Start date
mas985 said:
I inquired about this today via phone. The short story is that I still do not know for sure. He's off tomorrow and will discuss Friday (when he's on site and the pool is shot). He told me that he added a 5th return (basically one on each corner + the stairs -- and he did say that some would be on shared lines back to the pad. But he did not elaborate on which.
Additonally, the urn line will be 1.5", shared from pool to pad, then T-ed to supply both urns.
I appreciate the help -- I'll get more info Friday.
oooooooooooooookkkk...
Gunite was bumped from friday due to rain....
Spoke with the PB. He wants to run 1, 2" trunk from pad to 'close-to-pool' which then branches off into 2, 2" lines to feed a total of 5 eyeball returns. The urns are in 1.5" from pad to pool.
I've explained that I'm looking to maximize the benefit from the VS pump. He's amenable to anything additionl plumbing requests -- all I have to pay the difference in materials.
Separate question, does anyone have any history with flexible pipe? wouldn't mind dropping off some of the 90s...
Thanks in advance
Gunite was bumped from friday due to rain....
Spoke with the PB. He wants to run 1, 2" trunk from pad to 'close-to-pool' which then branches off into 2, 2" lines to feed a total of 5 eyeball returns. The urns are in 1.5" from pad to pool.
I've explained that I'm looking to maximize the benefit from the VS pump. He's amenable to anything additionl plumbing requests -- all I have to pay the difference in materials.
Separate question, does anyone have any history with flexible pipe? wouldn't mind dropping off some of the 90s...
Thanks in advance
Do not use flex pipe 
No structural integrity to it, relatively easy to puncture with tie wire or any sharp object that presses on it (which you really do not want once it is buried in concrete or under your deck), and nothing but a quick way to plumb. Primer, glue and hard pipe will insure for a long lasting, trouble free installation.
Flex pipe is popular in stand alone spas since it fits in the enclosure easily. But there is always access in a stand alone spa for when there is a failure. Not so in in ground pools.
No structural integrity to it, relatively easy to puncture with tie wire or any sharp object that presses on it (which you really do not want once it is buried in concrete or under your deck), and nothing but a quick way to plumb. Primer, glue and hard pipe will insure for a long lasting, trouble free installation.Flex pipe is popular in stand alone spas since it fits in the enclosure easily. But there is always access in a stand alone spa for when there is a failure. Not so in in ground pools.
I'm only posting to reinforce what simi said......Nix the flex! :lol:
Per what mas985 has taught many of us, 90's make up very, very little of the head loss in a typical system. A few more here are there are not important overall.
Per what mas985 has taught many of us, 90's make up very, very little of the head loss in a typical system. A few more here are there are not important overall.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,067
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Optoman,
I would run 2 - 2" lines for the returns and 3 - 2" lines for the suction from pool to pad. The single 1.5" line for the urns is fine assuming they don't need much in the way of flow rate. Although not completely necessary, 2.5" on the pad would help as well. That way you don't have to worry about the 90s.
I would run 2 - 2" lines for the returns and 3 - 2" lines for the suction from pool to pad. The single 1.5" line for the urns is fine assuming they don't need much in the way of flow rate. Although not completely necessary, 2.5" on the pad would help as well. That way you don't have to worry about the 90s.
The 3 individually piped 2" suction lines are much more important than the doubled return lines.
You can get away with a 2" pipe for return and and a 1 1/2" pipe on the Urns with no problem. Just make sure that your eyeballs are a minimum of 1/2" ID (c profile)
With the dinky little filter you have you better never ever run your pump on the highest speed.
My suggestion is to ask your builder how much of an upgrade cost would a CC420 filter be. I PROMISE you that this will be the best money ever spent on your circulatory system.
Don't let your builder yank your chain and tell you that they're equal because they aren't.
Just my .02
See ya,
Kelly
You can get away with a 2" pipe for return and and a 1 1/2" pipe on the Urns with no problem. Just make sure that your eyeballs are a minimum of 1/2" ID (c profile)
With the dinky little filter you have you better never ever run your pump on the highest speed.
My suggestion is to ask your builder how much of an upgrade cost would a CC420 filter be. I PROMISE you that this will be the best money ever spent on your circulatory system.
Don't let your builder yank your chain and tell you that they're equal because they aren't.
Just my .02
See ya,
Kelly
Hi Everyone -- Thank you for all of your responses.
1 - Flex:
Got ya on the flex. Flex=bad. no flex. ixne lexfe.
2 - my error:
I need to alter something in the description of the pool I laid out
.... apparently the two main drains are t-ed together for safety reasons down in Florida, so it is only *two* suction lines. One from the skimmer, and 1 from the T-ed together main drains. Does that significantly change things ?
3 - eyeball ID (profile C)
I'll ask about the eyeball ID....
4 - dinky filter
How dare you speak of my unit as dinky !!!!! :lol:
Any equipment swap out are at cost -- so it's shouldn't be a big deal to upgrade to the filter. But let me share my rationale on why I chose the largest Clean and clear filter over the Plus version. The C&C had sufficient flow capacity, and also you only had to replace one filter. The Clean and clear plus requires replacing 4 filters -- and it was significantly overspeced. Am I just totally missing the boat here ? Is it as simple as.. filter overcapacity trumps everything else?
5 - 2.5" on the pad.
I take that to mean 2.5" pipe for the pad plumbing -- but where would the reduction to 2" occur?
Thanks again for all the advice. gunite showing up tomorrow.....
1 - Flex:
Got ya on the flex. Flex=bad. no flex. ixne lexfe.
2 - my error:
I need to alter something in the description of the pool I laid out
.... apparently the two main drains are t-ed together for safety reasons down in Florida, so it is only *two* suction lines. One from the skimmer, and 1 from the T-ed together main drains. Does that significantly change things ?3 - eyeball ID (profile C)
I'll ask about the eyeball ID....
4 - dinky filter
How dare you speak of my unit as dinky !!!!! :lol:
Any equipment swap out are at cost -- so it's shouldn't be a big deal to upgrade to the filter. But let me share my rationale on why I chose the largest Clean and clear filter over the Plus version. The C&C had sufficient flow capacity, and also you only had to replace one filter. The Clean and clear plus requires replacing 4 filters -- and it was significantly overspeced. Am I just totally missing the boat here ? Is it as simple as.. filter overcapacity trumps everything else?
5 - 2.5" on the pad.
I take that to mean 2.5" pipe for the pad plumbing -- but where would the reduction to 2" occur?
Thanks again for all the advice. gunite showing up tomorrow.....
Optoman said:
I'm with Kelly; get the 420. You may have the flow with the 200 (I'd double check though!) and only one filter to clean, but you'll be cleaning it 4 times as often
While not always true, bigger is better in this case. A pool that does not filter efficiently is no fun! Spend a couple bucks more now, clean the 4 (small!) filters when needed, and spend more time enjoying your pool in the long run!
I third that motion, definitely go with a larger filter.
It probably has a max flow rate of 150gpm which is due to the 2inch ports. 1gpm per sq ft is the generally accepted maximum residential flow rate and 1/2 gpm per ft for commercial cartridge filters. If you use the maximum (which is wishful), once 26% of the filter is dirty you are below the flow rate of the 2inch ports and you start adding unneccessary head loss to your system. Personnally I would prefer sand or DE but if you want cartridge, at least get the the largest available unless you like the tedious process of cleaning them.
It probably has a max flow rate of 150gpm which is due to the 2inch ports. 1gpm per sq ft is the generally accepted maximum residential flow rate and 1/2 gpm per ft for commercial cartridge filters. If you use the maximum (which is wishful), once 26% of the filter is dirty you are below the flow rate of the 2inch ports and you start adding unneccessary head loss to your system. Personnally I would prefer sand or DE but if you want cartridge, at least get the the largest available unless you like the tedious process of cleaning them.
I quadruple the motion!! I have a 15K gallon pool/spa, a 1 HP (1.85 THP) main pump and 2" plumbing. My builder said that I wouldn't need anything larger than a 200 sq ft. cartridge. So, I, being rebellious and onery, insisted on a 425 sq ft cartridge filter. The added cost... wait for this... was $50.00. When I open my cartridge filter in late May, for its once-a-year cleaning, it looks as though it's brand new. Yeah, 4 cartridges requires about 3 hours of spray-washing to access and clean out each of the pleats... but it's a one time per year task and the PSI never varies.renovxpt said:
Optoman said:Hi Everyone -- Thank you for all of your responses.
2 - my error:
I need to alter something in the description of the pool I laid out
5 - 2.5" on the pad.
I take that to mean 2.5" pipe for the pad plumbing -- but where would the reduction to 2" occur?
Thanks again for all the advice. gunite showing up tomorrow.....
Don't worry about only having two 2" suction lines, it'll be fine. What you don't want with that pump is a main drain tied into the second port of your surface skimmer feeding one pipe back to the pump. The suction your pump will offer on high speed will overwhelm the flow capability of the 2" pipe.
With two 2" suction lines you'll have a slightly high velocity but nothing unreasonably to many fps.
My suggestion is to utilize a 2 x 2 1/2 Jandy 4717 neverlube 3-way valve to regulate the suction between the main drain and the skimmer. You'll simply glue the suction lines into the 2 ports and place a 2 1/2" coupling over the port feeding the front of the pump, then using 2 1/2 x 2 bushings you can run 2 1/2" pipe to the filter, then out of the filter into another 3-way valve to regulate flow between the inlets (eyeballs) and the urns.
This is nothing that needs to be handled prior to gunite, your plumber will do it when he places and plumbs your equipment set.
I'm glad you didn't take my comment on your filter as an insult because it wasn't meant to be.
Although I've been a member here for years I forgot about this site until I saw a link the other evening.
Many long timers will tell you that I call them exactly as I see them and my advice is usually pretty much spot on. I have nothing to gain by pulling somebodies leg on any aspect of pool construction. Congrats on the new pool and thanks for supporting the industry with your pool purchase.
Without pool owners and buyers like yourself and the other folks constructing new pools we (builders, equipment Mfg's, and the retailers and wholesalers) would be in a heap of hurt.See ya,
Kelly
No insult taken 
-- I was offering a double entendre on having "small unit" and "dinky" being in the same sentence 
I think I understand the 2.5 section. Just to regurgitate -- it's basically upsizing to 2.5 wherever all of the water is combined into 1 pipe (suction valve -> pump -> filter -> return valve).
Pics coming this evening of the gunite -- they're floating the rest of it now.
-- oh -- and I posted on my wife's acct by accident -- motion carries ! I'll definitely get the 420.
Thx
-- I was offering a double entendre on having "small unit" and "dinky" being in the same sentence I think I understand the 2.5 section. Just to regurgitate -- it's basically upsizing to 2.5 wherever all of the water is combined into 1 pipe (suction valve -> pump -> filter -> return valve).
Pics coming this evening of the gunite -- they're floating the rest of it now.
-- oh -- and I posted on my wife's acct by accident -- motion carries ! I'll definitely get the 420.
Thx
Sorry, no one here understands what you're talking about. Please explain this double something'r'other in explicit and exhaustive detail and without using any actual or metaphorical reference to anatomy. (Remember, this is a family site.) What are you waiting for?
polyvue said:Sorry, no one here understands what you're talking about. Please explain this double something'r'other in explicit and exhaustive detail and without using any actual or metaphorical reference to anatomy. (Remember, this is a family site.) What are you waiting for?
Yup, I didn't get that either. What is an "entendre"?! Sounds French or something. This is an English speaking forum (that the French are welcome to be a part of, as far as I know), but we need to speak English so most members can gain understanding and try and help. And, I'm not even sure "dinky" is a real word either (might be Scandinavian?).
I'm really confused! Please Optoman (another foreign word!), take polyvue's request and 'splain what it is you're talking about! :lol:
Come 'ta think of it, Simicrintz and Polyvue are mighty suspicious aliases, don't ya think?
We had better start investigating ourselves! And, for the record: I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a member of any party or club that would have someone like me for a member.
Hrmph.
We had better start investigating ourselves! And, for the record: I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a member of any party or club that would have someone like me for a member.
Hrmph.
OMGOptoman said:No insult taken
Thx
I've always considered myself reasonably intelligent but I didn't get the ""double entendre"" thing either. I had to search the web and ended up LMAO at myself. It was crystal clear and went right over my head.
Thanks for the laugh, even if it was me laughing at myself
Your absolutely correct, this is what mas985 was describing.Optoman said:
See ya,
Kelly
polyvue said:And, for the record: I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a member of any party or club that would have someone like me for a member.
Hrmph.
Hmmmmm, not only am I member on another (unrelated) site, I am also a moderator on it
Maybe you have brought to light deep, unresolved issues that I didn't even know I possessed! I'm starting to feel ill.......