mustard algae(?) nuisance

[lilpam14]

Split from here: mustard-algae-nuisance-t53761.html
Please start your own thread when you have questions. Avoid hijacking. Butterfly

I have had something similar happen to a pool I take care of for a friend and it about killed me brushing a vac'ing everyday!!! It happened 3 times w/ in a 2 month period. The first time chlorine was low but 2 times after that pool chems were balanced?? I put in more bleach than I ever thought I would need, but I had to to get the pool clear again.
How can I get a green/yellow pool when chemicals are balanced? Was not trusting myself so I took a sample to pool store and they got the same results.
Also the pH in this pool tends to run high, can this happen with Marcite pools? Would I possibly need to replace the sand in the filter? Cannot get a reading on the pump pressure because his gauge is not working. Going to talk him into replacing it, which should be an easy fix right???
Oh ya he also has a family of ducks that love to live in the pool and leave small treasures behind in the water. Could they be part of the problem?
I know this is alot and it is BEEZ forum but.... :?
@ BEEZ sorry to take over your issue but it seemed so much like mine.

 

[y_not]

Hi lilpam14

Thread hijacker!
*just messing with ya, it's cool, so long as the mods don't care.

So are you saying the water is green, clear green/yellow like Kool-Aid, or murky, milky colored?
Or are you saying it's clear, but has yellow algae on the sides in the shade like the OP's pool?

Post a full set of test numbers; FC, CC, pH, TA, CH and the ever important CYA. Also your chlorine/sanitizer source.
Once we have that, I and everyone else can help you further.
Also photos of the problem pool do wonders for being able to help you better.

Yes, if ducks are pooping in the pool, that's a major issue and you'd need to run much higher FC levels and longer pump/filtration runtimes.
Keeping the ducks out of the pool somehow would be best, a scarecrow type of fixture or something. Aside from that, you do have to compensate for the ducks. They're like ultra dirty bathers, lots and lots of bathers!!!

Sand almost never needs to be replaced in a filter. It does however need to be resettled and cleaned each season.
See my signature below for a how-to link.

 

[y_not]

lilpam14,

Also, please consider adding your location city(or area)/state to your profile as well as your pool information to your signature like mine.

This helps us troubleshoot your pool based on equipment and geographic location, climate, etc...

Here's the link for how to do that.
Please try to keep your sig to 5 lines. Makes for a tidier forum, less 'space' to scroll through on smart phones and such.
Adding your location & pool info.

Thanks a bunch lilpam14.
Happy to have you on the forum and posting questions.
We love helping and I love lending a hand.

 

[lilpam14]

THANKS y_not So it is approx. 15,000 gal pool, marcite, sand filter, auto chlorinator. I use the BBB method as best I can. The pool is clear and chems are back to norm w/ just a slightly high pH that I fixed with acid. This happened a few weeks ago so I no longer have numbers. I said green/yellow because I assumed that is was either green or yellow algae. It was more on the yellowish side and murky. After the several days the pool started to clear but after starting to brush and vacuum it, it became so cloudy I could not see the bottom any more in the deep end. Also once it started to clear up I would find brownish/yellow debris on the bottom of the pool, mostly in the deep end. That is also why I called it yellow algae. So I kept cleaning and adding bleach thinking there was still algae.
As far as the ducks, I have adjusted the chlorinator to a higher level and the pump run time as well. Tried to use obstacles to keep the ducks out but.. no luck. They mostly laugh at them I am sure!!
THANKS AGAIN Even though it is now cleared up I want to try and learn why it got like that so if it happens again I can figure it out easier.

 

[y_not]

Sure thing lilpam14.

You definitely need to get that gauge fixed as well as clean and resettle the sand bed as I noted with link.
It can be any hydraulic pressure gauge, no need to by an official, overpriced part. Just so long as it's a similar range and same thread. Lower range is even good, so long as it's about what it usually runs up to max and maybe a tick more.

I wasn't really so much after what the levels were at back when you had the problem, but what they are at now. I really can't tell you what to do with it without those, none of us can. We'd just be guessing.
So if you could run a set of tests on it and post those, that'd be great. Remember, since it's getting cold, your CYA sample has to be at 70f minimum.

Did you ever actually go through the full shock process as outline in Pool School? See my sig.
You have to pass an OCLT of <1.0ppm, CC <0.5 and the water is clear. If it's mustard algae, which grows mostly on walls and in the shade, then you should have brought it up to mustard shock levels for 24hrs after passing the above at std. shock levels.
Only then can you let it drop back down to normal.

And I'm sure the ducks are laughing at you. *Silly humans BWuhahah*

 

[lilpam14]

Thanks again. If I get the chance to send you #s I will. I will be back over there tomorrow. You guys talk alot of numbers and stuff and I don't get exact numbers just ranges. Still pretty much a rookie at it.

 

[y_not]

Thanks again. If I get the chance to send you #s I will. I will be back over there tomorrow. You guys talk alot of numbers and stuff and I don't get exact numbers just ranges. Still pretty much a rookie at it.

Well, the reason we talk a lot of numbers and the like is because they help us to know what's going on in our pool and how to treat it daily, get to know it. Or how to fix it when something goes wrong, as in your case.
Even the tests we use aren't chem lab accurate, we aren't making rocket fuel as it has been said.
But they are consistent and repeatable, that's what matters. You test your FC last night after dark and get 5ppm, this morning, before sunrise, you get 4.5ppm. You know for a fact you lost 0.5ppm FC. Simple and sweet and it works.

"Just ranges" doesn't work, not with Free Chlorine = FC / Combine Chloramines = CC / Cyanuric Acid (CL Stabilizer) = CYA. If your CYA is too high, you can never keep enough chlorine in it to keep it happy and avoid algae. You have to know exactly what it is.
But even then, the turbidimetric test we use is only accurate to about +/- 15ppm. But it's still better then guessing.

I presume by your comment about only getting ranges that you are just using a basic OTO/pH block with the yellow CL indicator and red range pH. Nonetheless, some sort of unit where you have to do a color comparison to determine the CL levels, correct?

You can't shock a pool with a kit like that, you absolutely must have a FAS-DPD kit, like the one you get in the TF-100 or the smaller k2006 kit.
I don't mean to be harsh, more of a reality check than anything, but...
Judging by your join date, I'm sure you have been around this forum long enough to know that you need a proper kit to be able to manage your pool correctly. Without it, you're just guessing and you'll wind up with problems.

I know it might seem like a pain to do all the testing, but it's really not. Most of it you only do a few times per season, the FC test and pH is the one you do daily till you get to know your pool, how much to dose it with liquid CL, how much it looses, adjusting your CYA, etc...
Then, once you get to know it, you can pretty much just dump CL in it nightly, as you know how much it needs, then test it 2-3x /week and you're good. It's really quite easy and only overly into the geeky realm if you want it to be.
That's why we call it "TFP" = Trouble Free Pool.
It's not maintenance free, just less trouble than everyone else's method.

Also, believe me when I say that you just can't trust the pool store to do it for you either.
"You" the owner or caretaker are a much better and consistently reliable source than the Pool Store and their faulty equipment and/or inexperienced, careless "Pool Counter Kids/People".

Seeing as you manage 3 different pools. I would buy the TF100 from the link in my sig, get the XL option and a speed stir, both check marks in the upper right for a discounted price when purchased together.
I would also get a sizer (exactly 10/25ml every time, no dripping, pouring, going back for another sample because you dumped out too much, etc..
Plus an adl. or 2, CC reagent R-0003 & Phenol Red R-0014.
Remember, shipping is more expensive than re-agents, so best to get what you need now. So you aren't stuck with low vials and have to pay a lot for shipping, but instead able to plan for an order of many at once, saving on overall cost per re-agent bottle. Sensible.

Those are the re-agents you'll go through the fastest having to run so many frequent tests. Dave @ TFTestKits ships super fast and has the best customer service you can find.
The SpeedStir is just plain a must, unless you love to swirl a cylinder of test water and drop drops of re-agent simultaneously. You'll tire of it quickly. Once you get it, having done it manually, you won't know how you lived without it.
I can attest to this 1st hand!!

The BBB method isn't so much about Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda.
It is about getting to know your pool and learning how to properly treat it using decades of culminated advice and chemistry to back it up. Methods of which we know work, because they are tried and true tested, over and over and over again.

Being a rookie is A-OK!! We all started there, even I did mere months ago.
You just have to dive in, get your head wet and make a go at it.
We are here to help you along the way, no problem.
You can do it!!!

 

[jparr]

Personally - I consider it a nuisance. My pool is kept at 10+ FC, usually at 15FC, 16k gallons, DE filter, SWG, CYA between 60 -80. Mustard algae refuses to go away. I can shock the pool to 40+ FC and keep it there for a week, and its all gone, but will be back within a week or two of FC levels being in the teens. I just keep it scrubbed, and the impact is minimized, annoying for sure though.

 

[chem geek]

I can shock the pool to 40+ FC and keep it there for a week, and its all gone, but will be back within a week or two of FC levels being in the teens.

In this thread where you described the two attempts at getting rid of the yellow/mustard algae, I didn't see anything about cleaning light niches or getting under any removable ladders. Do you have lights in your pool or removable ladders or staircase steps?

 

[lilpam14]

@ y_not so here are the numbers I got with test kit I have. Chl 1.5 Br 3.4 pH 7.6 Alk 80. I know you preach about the other kit but this is all I have to work with for now. I also am not testing the pools daily just weekly. They were in fair shape when I took over and since then have been better. With the exception of the one I spoke about when I "hijacked" this thread!!! I am learning as I go, by researching, and learning from this great site.
Pool looks great and birds are not as abundant as previously. Finally got the owner to start chasing them away. Also trying a few deterrents.
Another question can a SWG pool use any type of filter, (i.e. sand, DE, paper cartridge) Is one better than the other for SWG?
Thanks for all your info.

 

[y_not]

lilpam14,
I apologize for my belayed reply. Just haven't been able to set aside the time to do very much of anything on the web as of late.

So the very first thing that pops out at me from your numbers is that your chlorine levels are very, very low. FC/TC.
Not even knowing what your CYA level is, this is still just too low.

At those levels you'll have an algae outbreak in no time flat and if you don't have one now, one is brewing and things are growing that shouldn't be.

You can ignore bromine unless you have a spa and you specifically put BR in there as a sanitizer. It looks like from the results you posted that you have an OTO chlorine test kit, where you put in typically 5 drops of a clear liquid and the sample turns a shade of yellow, correct?
If that's the case, then unless you have a deluxe Taylor kit of sorts, or an HTH kit made by Taylor, you likely do not have a CYA test.

CYA numbers are extremely important for a few reasons.
A. It has a direct relationship with CL.
B. It sequesters a percentage of the CL and prevents the sun's UV rays from consuming it.

Because of this direct relationship between CL and CYA, the amount of CL you use and thus your FC reading is directly proportionate to how much CYA you have. The more CYA, the more CL you have to add to keep your FC at a level that will sanitize your pool and keep it clean and free of algae and other bad stuff. Disease, germs, bacteria, etc..

So hence I can't even begin to tell you, nor can anyone here or with reasonable certainty anywhere else, tell you how much CL you need to continually add to your pool to maintain a proper FC level. It's just not possible without a CYA reading.

You have made comments the lead me to believe that you are opposed toward the kit(s) that we recommend. I can do nothing more than explain and teach why one of these "good" kits is necessary.
If it is a cost issue, well, you'll be saving tons of money on the reduction of bleach and other chemicals to cure algae outbreaks. As well as equipment repairs and pool surface repairs, calcium scaling cleanup, etc..
You have to know CH levels in a plaster/concrete type pool.
If you can't afford it right now, that's perfectly fine, I understand. Do try to put it in your budget. You can get one for around $50 if you're on a really tight budget.
But being that you're managing not just your own pool, but at least several others. A small kit will run out quickly, costing you more in the end. But it'll at least get you started.

Do you need any help on deciding what kit, or do you have any questions about them? Ask away!! I'm all ears and happy to answer.

Don't worry about "hijacking the thread" a lot of new users to forums aren't even aware of that rule, let alone what it means.
That's why I'm not evil with someone when it happens. I, just like the rest of this fine forum, do not believe in driving people away by being rude or condescending. But instead, helping them. I believe in teaching the village to grow it's own food and sustain itself, not feed the village.
With hijacking, every case is a little different and sometimes it's OK. In general I just leave it up to the mods discretion. Don't beat yourself up over it, live and learn!!

I and the forum, as well as its users appreciate that and it sounds like you're doing far better than most people that have a pool, well those that aren't on this site.
This site is definitely an utter treasure trove of knowledge and free, money saving advice. I and many others are in a great debt to it's service.

Good for scaring off the birdies.

SWGs, they'll work fine with any type of filter. It all boils down to personal preference on filter types. I wouldn't even attempt a SWG with the kit you have though.
BTW, the order of filtration quality with filters is as follows, the best being at the top, then working their way down from there.

DE Filter - Cellulose Fiber in place of DE
DE Filter - DE Powder
Sand Filter - Pentair ClearPro Technology (Sand Filter with DE like clarity)
Cartridge Filter - Big Cartridges = less cleaning about 1x/yr.
Sand Filter - Cellulose/DE on top of sand bed
Sand Filter - Sand/Glass Beads (These are about the same.)
Intex Cartridge Filters

Thanks lilpam.

 

[lilpam14]

OK THANKS so much for your help and input. I do have a 2nd test kit that was given to me but I am trying to figure out what all it will do. It is in a larger blue box and has 8 bottles of testing agents. I know that is not much of a description. I will work on getting a better kit.
I was wondering about the SWG because I have never taken care of a salt water pool. I did not know if they had filters like the other pools or what exactly the cells were they talked about.
Thanks again.

 

[y_not]

Post a photo of it and we can identify it. Get a photo of the reagent labels as well as the color comparator block too.

Are you taking on an SWG pool, or are you thinking of adding one to your existing setup?

A little more info..
An SWG cell simply replaces your std. chlorine sources, liquid (bleach), pucks, cal-hypo, etc..
You dissolve salt in the pool, the cell has metal plates in it that have electricity running through it. As the water passes through the cell when the pump runs and the cell switches on, it breaks apart the molecular bond of the NaCL (Sodium+Chloride) that's in the pool water. As it does this, it forms hypochlorous acid, a very concentrated pure form of chlorine.

As a result of all the tiny bubbles created from the electrolysis process inside the cell, you get a pH rise. So you have to keep TA quite low in order to compensate for that, as well as scaling from CH on the plates. Adding borates is a good idea as well, it'll keep the pH rise down by about 50%.
CYA has to be much higher than a liquid chlorinated pool, since a SWG doesn't need to run FC levels as high as with other CL sources. Due to the potency of the CL being generated and well as the concentration inside the cell, being highly effective at oxidizing organics in the water when it passes through the cell.

May I ask, are you a professional pool girl, or just helping out friends and family in the area?

 

[lilpam14]

Helping out friends and neighbors that do not live here full time. Not a professional at all, that is why I am on here learning or at least trying to. Although I did teach myself to fix a pump and worked on a heater and tomorrow I am attempting to relace a timer.

Never owned a pool and unfortunately still do not!!! We have a boat instead. So this site is very helpful to me. Science and chemistry were never my strong suits and still are not. LOL

Neighbor's pool is salt water and was unsure about the filter situation. My first run with this type of pool. Now I understand what the cells are. I knew it worked with electrophys but didn't know how the cells fit into that.
I have tried to post pics on here before and it says my file is to big. Another thing that is not a strong suit of mine is computers, electronics and technology!!! The label on top of the box is half missing so not sure the exact type of kit. I will see what I can do
Thanks again

 

[y_not]

Try this: How to add pictures to a post (full guide with screenshots)