Mixing acid and Baking soda in a Stenner ?

[MaverickFL]

I've got all my chems and my LSI balanced pretty much right where I want them. I have a large waterfall that I run all day and an SWCG so my PH drifts up and my TA drifts down. I installed a Stenner pump a short while back and have the mixture (2:1 water/acid) and the run time pretty much down pat to where the pool holds 7.7/7.8 dead on now on a daily basis. I'd like to do something similar for the TA but I have a tight pad and only have enough room for one Stenner pump. So the question is can I mix the baking soda in the 2:1 water/acid mixture at the proper ratio? I remember vinegar and baking soda making fun explosions in closed containers when I was a kid so not sure if I can add it slowly and wait for the reaction to finish or is the reaction basically killing the chemical properties of the baking soda ?

Mav

 

[Bperry]

I've got all my chems and my LSI balanced pretty much right where I want them. I have a large waterfall that I run all day and an SWCG so my PH drifts up and my TA drifts down. I installed a Stenner pump a short while back and have the mixture (2:1 water/acid) and the run time pretty much down pat to where the pool holds 7.7/7.8 dead on now on a daily basis. I'd like to do something similar for the TA but I have a tight pad and only have enough room for one Stenner pump. So the question is can I mix the baking soda in the 2:1 water/acid mixture at the proper ratio? I remember vinegar and baking soda making fun explosions in closed containers when I was a kid so not sure if I can add it slowly and wait for the reaction to finish or is the reaction basically killing the chemical properties of the baking soda ?

Mav

No! Don’t do it.

 

[Mdragger88]

Omg , NO - please don’t attempt this!
If you need to adjust ta - broadcast the baking soda across the surface of the pool water.

 

[JamesW]

If you need to lower the pH without affecting the TA, just use carbon dioxide.

That is what you will produce if you mix baking soda and acid.

Mixing acid and baking soda is a bad idea as all it will do is create a bunch of nasty foam and carbon dioxide.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Mix baking soda and white vinegar and watch what happens … if you do that with muriatic acid and baking soda the same thing will happen just on a much grander and more dangerous scale.

Please review the basic pool school articles. You need to refresh yourself on how to manage the pools pH/TA.

 

[duraleigh]

From Jeff Foxworthy years ago......

You might be a redneck if....you have at least one relative who's last words were, "Hey, y'all, Watch this!!"

Maverick, I mean no disrespect........I think it's a funny, funny joke.

 

[MaverickFL]

I am already familiar with how to manage my pools ph and TA. As I mentioned above, the pool is in good balance, my ph and TA drift due to the aeration from the waterfall running all the time plus the effect on ph from the SWCG. I am looking for a way to manage it proactively on a daily basis rather than periodic dosing as it has worked out perfectly well with the acid dosing. Are there any non-reactive chemicals that I could mix into the Stenner to reduce TA ?

 

[MaverickFL]

From Jeff Foxworthy years ago......

You might be a redneck if....you have at least one relative who's last words were, "Hey, y'all, Watch this!!"

Maverick, I mean no disrespect........I think it's a funny, funny joke.

Thanks Jeff, I mean Dura, I needed a laugh today, I found the humor in it, don't worry. I'm not a chemist but I did mention that the acid is diluted 2:1 so I don't quite think it would be quite as volatile as y'all are envisioning but open to ideas.

 

[JamesW]

If you need to lower the pH without affecting the TA, just use carbon dioxide.

Are there any non-reactive chemicals that I could mix into the Stenner to reduce TA ?

No, it does not work like that.

Never mix chemicals.

 

[mgtfp]

Are there any non-reactive chemicals that I could mix into the Stenner to reduce TA ?

Assume that was a typo? MA reduces TA.

Which TA are you targeting? When do you add baking soda?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The amount of acid a pool needs is going to seasonally vary. It also depends on the TA of the fill source and sources of aeration. If you are dosing acid and maintaining a specific pH with the TA dropping, then you are adding too much acid. You need to cut back on dosing as evaporation and temperature changes. Also, aeration sources should be left off except for whatever is needed to turn over the water a bit. I have an attached spa and a waterfall with basins in it. I run it only enough to exchange the water a bit and then they are off. They run maybe an hour per day total.

This is the mistake everyone makes - pH and TA are NOT separate chemical quantities like chlorine and calcium. pH and TA are intimately connected to one another so you can’t change one without affecting the other. It’s always going to be a balancing effect and the point of balance changes seasonally.

Sorry, there’s no “set it and forget it” with this one. You simply have to test frequently and adjust dosing as needed.

 

[MaverickFL]

The amount of acid a pool needs is going to seasonally vary. It also depends on the TA of the fill source and sources of aeration. If you are dosing acid and maintaining a specific pH with the TA dropping, then you are adding too much acid. You need to cut back on dosing as evaporation and temperature changes. Also, aeration sources should be left off except for whatever is needed to turn over the water a bit. I have an attached spa and a waterfall with basins in it. I run it only enough to exchange the water a bit and then they are off. They run maybe an hour per day total.

This is the mistake everyone makes - pH and TA are NOT separate chemical quantities like chlorine and calcium. pH and TA are intimately connected to one another so you can’t change one without affecting the other. It’s always going to be a balancing effect and the point of balance changes seasonally.

Sorry, there’s no “set it and forget it” with this one. You simply have to test frequently and adjust dosing as needed.

Joyful,

The acid through the dosing amounts to about a cup per day, and it maintains at 7.7/7.8 which is not significant enough to cause the TA to drop. The TA is most likely dropping as a result of the aeration not of the acid. The aeration source is the multi-level waterfall. The waterfall is in the middle of my home and is the focal point so dropping the aeration is not an option, I have dropped the flow down as low as possible at this point.

 

[JamesW]

The acid through the dosing amounts to about a cup per day, and it maintains at 7.7/7.8 which is not significant enough to cause the TA to drop. The TA is most likely dropping as a result of the aeration not of the acid.

Acid lowers TA.

Aeration does not lower TA.

 

[MaverickFL]

Assume that was a typo? MA reduces TA.

Which TA are you targeting? When do you add baking soda?

Yes, thank you for catching that typo, I want to increase TA not reduce. Not sure what you mean which TA ? I haven't figured out the 'schedule' of the TA drift as I have with the ph quite yet, It seems to be somewhere around 10-20ppm per week but that's just a guess at this point.

 

[JamesW]

The only way to lower the pH without affecting the TA is to use carbon dioxide.

 

[MaverickFL]

I'm not lowering the PH, its holding rock steady at 7.7

 

[MaverickFL]

Nevermind, I misunderstood you. Yes, the acid and the aeration will cause the TA to drift down, I agree, this is the reason I am looking to add back baking soda on a dosing schedule as I have done with the acid to keep it closer to in check on a daily basis and then just make small adjustments as needed.

 

[JamesW]

The acid through the dosing amounts to about a cup per day, and it maintains at 7.7/7.8

If you are adding acid, the pH and the TA are being lowered.

Aeration raises the pH without affecting the TA.

So, you are raising and lowering the pH simultaneously, which results in a relatively stable pH but a dropping TA.

 

[MaverickFL]

Acid lowers TA.

Aeration does not lower TA.

"When the water evaporates in the pool, it is not only pure water (the H2O molecule) that is released, but also dissolved CO2. This is what is called the water degassing phenomenon.

The removal of this dissolved CO2 from the water will have a direct impact on the total alkalinity, and will cause its value to fall."

The total alkalinity in my swimming pool drops during the season - is this normal?

During the season, each time you analyse your water, you note that the total alkalinity value is continually dropping

www.acti-chemical.com

Using Air and Acid to Quickly Get Perfect pH/Alkalinity

You really can nail down pH and alkalinity using just air and muriatic acid.

www.aquamagazine.com

 

[JamesW]

You can add a separate dosing system to add baking soda dissolved in water, but that will be inconsistent and it probably won't work well.

If you want a single dosing system consider going with a carbon dioxide system.