Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

Let me give you what I do -

First off - for closing the pool in the fall, I use a closed "solid" pool cover tarp after I use a Jack Frost winterizing kit (I buy for a 30,000 gal pool normally - I would rather have too much than not enough. This also holds the "leaf tea" away from the pool water (I have big issues with this). The solid (light stopping) cover helps prevent algae from starting in the first place.

In the spring - yes, I open my pool in early April just to give myself plenty of time to get the pool under control so I can start swimming in May (I had my first 2 swims on 5/30 and 5/31 - in water that was around 72 degrees). I used to have big time problems getting the cover off, until the wife and me figured out that we had to get ALL the leaves and water out of the top of the cover - before we figured that out , we would dump lots of brown water and leaves that took lots of effort / pumping and backwashing to clear up. I still have some leaves that snuck under the cover over the winter, but it is a very much more manageable problem now. If it would have been warm enough - my pool was ready by May 1 this year.

The guy I buy my pool supplies from sold me my big sand filter several years ago, and it's been fine ever since. I usually backwash after I vacuum or weekly during pollen season (also early spring through current).

From the sounds of it - you're not too happy (understatement ?) with your cartridge filter, so I would consider going back to DE or change to sand, whichever you're more comfortable with. Just follow the guidelines on this site for "proper sizing" and don't let someone try to sell you something that is not big enough just because they have it in stock. A good price is not necessarily a good value if it is not right for your situation.

You have done one thing right - you came here !
 
Thank you for your reply. Finding this wonderful site is very good. Just a bit too late for some major purchases i made based on recommendations of pool stores. Yes, replacing the 20x44 spring attached mesh cover (purchased 10 years ago) and a new $2,300 cartridge filter (puchased in August 2012, used two month total) would be the optium solution, but i am not rich. These were purchases i made not based on money, but because i believed in pool companies who have been in existence and have been "helping" me for 18 years! It could be that no one really deals with pools that are as big as mine and plaster. I believe my pool store sold me a filter that they had in inventory, instead of ordering the right size.

With the education in this TFP, i am using my k006 taylor test kit and have found that my calcium hardness for a plaster pool is way too low, 100ppm, and has been for years (save my test reports). After some reading, I am guessing it's the reason that my "15 year guarantee paint jobs" begin to powder in 8 weeks. Over the past three weeks, I have put in 60 pounds of calcium hardness increaser and I m still at 200 ppm.

Lucy
 
NEED suggestions.... My cartridges will not come clean. I soaked my cartridges for six hours last week, hosed off the cartridges and the Floc slime was still in the grooves of the filter. The outer edges hose off. I just soaked the cartridges again for twelve hours.... got done hosing and STIlL the inside of the folds of the filter are covered in gray oilily matter. My pool continues to be cloudy, after 24 hours, seven days a week running. Cloudy meaning...I can see the bottom of the pool, but it is not clear... This year (may) i have seen No sign of the sparkling water that I have had for 18 years.

I am using 32oz of cartridge cleaner in a 40 gallon plastic garbage can. Should I continue to soak in the same solution? Should I add another bottle of cartridge cleaner to make the solution stronger? tSP? Will all this hurt my two month old cartridges? I am really having problems .... I only have 10 more weeks of swimming. I am so frustrated, sad, angry....

Thanks for your help in advance!

Chemicals seem to be good according to the pool calculator...
FC 5
CC 0
Ph 7.6
CH.210
TA 100
CYA. 40
 
If it is not coming off, you may have to replace the cartridges. I am not sure what else to suggest.

Let this be a lesson to anyone out there thinking of taking the floc shortcut :shock:
 
Thanks for the replies.....

I had been running my filter for three weeks. I could see the particles floating in the water. The filter wasn't picking them up. Shortcut? I thought it would help with the filtering. I know now it was a mistake, but there are no red flags saying .... DO NOT USE WITH CARTRIDGE filters. I bought the FLOc from the Same folks that sold me the filter. Patti, the store manager, who knew i was struggling with the new filter, didn't stop me from buying it. I didn't realize that without a waste option, you can't use FLOc. In my 18 years of owning a pool this was only the second time I purchased it. Truly a mistake! I miss my DE filter! I knew it well.

As I said earlier, I have used this filter for all of eight weeks...four last August-September and four this may-June. Replace the cartridges??!!! spend another $1,000 and still end up with an undersized filter?

Frustratedpoolmom (that's me!) I have a fireman's type nozzle. Pressure is great, but I'll try one of our other heads. Thanks for the tip. I'm letting the cartridges soak again overnight. I'll try another type in the morning.
 
I certainly understand your frustration and hopefully a better soaking and spraying will get them cleaned out.

If it is any consolation, 4 new cartridges are less than $200 :jocolor:
 
Surprise today! Came home from work, hosed my slimy filters for third time after 30 hours of soaking. Went to put them back into the filter and the filter was assembled without the cartridges! Who would have done that, i wondered? Well, my guess is that it's the pool builder that I have been waiting for for three months to fix the leak. Yeah!!

He did some magic. There is no air coming from the return lines! The pressure is about 5 points higher at clean (well that's relative since i have issues with my new cartridges, but they did get much whiter). There is still Bubbles in the pump basket. Tomorrow AM, I'll see if the pool level is down.

He didn't touch the hole my brother started digging near the skimmer. I do see footprints around the connections that come out from under the concrete that allow me to turn off the return lines.

He must have found something. I'll call him tomorrow to find out. Could it be that we didn't need to dig a hole into deck?
 
I think I may have uncovered the reason why my pool will not get sparkling clear. I just brushed the sides and paint powder came off the wall. Not unusual. Could it be that my DE filter removed powdered paint particles better than a cartridge filter? My water looks milky now! I really need a new DE filter!!!! This just isn't going to get better without the proper filtration for my pool size and condition.
 
My pool water is still cloudy. I don't think the cartridge filter can remove powdering paint particles. Another pool professional said to add two pounds of DE. Helped a little bit, but not enough to create clear water. PS showed up last week. Left a note saying they repositioned an O-ring and stopped the leak...i laughed.

Wrote a letter to PS, copying Owner, general manager and the kid who chose and installed the filter. Said that..."although this cartridge filter may be good for smaller, liner pools, it is not the proper SIZE or TYPE for my 50 year old, 40,000 concrete, painted pool with a mesh winter cover. It has issues, but the proper filter can handle the issues. This one can't. I have 10 weeks left in the summer season and have used the pool three times. They have my money and I have 40,000 gallons of cloudy water. I want full credit for the Jandy 340 and replace it with a DE filter with a dial so i could have options for backwash and waste." The GM and installer are finally coming today to look at the situation.

I really hope to be able to swim in a crystal clear pool this weekend. I hope they do what's right.
 

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I wrote a letter Friday, summarizing all the issues in this thread. I addressed it to the owner, copying general manager and installer of the PS that installed the Jandy 350.

The GM just left. They confimed that the pool water quality was perfect. They said they did not make a mistake in sizing, but agree that the filter is not working. They are going to replace the filter with a Pentax 48 DE filter. Does this sound like a good fit? My last one was a nautilus 48.

I feel like you all have been my therapist. Any confirmation that this size DE is correct would be so appreciated. They are ordering it today.
 
As I wrote before:
jblizzle said:
You are also going to suffer since your new filter is WAY too small for your pool. Our general recommendations would be:
560 sqft cartridge; 7 sqft sand (36" diameter); 106 sqft DE

That 48sqft DE filter is less than half the size we would recommend. So that means you will have to be backwashing twice as often. Although with your short season, maybe that does not matter as much. Get as big as you can.
 
Thank you for replying so quickly! I will try and get at least the 60 model.

The PS said that the flow rate can only be as much as a 1.5 inch pipe can handle. I have all 1.5 inch pipe. Will this influence the size choice of the filter? I have a 2 HP pump, that they said was over kill for the same reason.
 
2HP is certainly overkill, but there is no real limit on the flow rate through the pipes. A bigger pump will move more water through any size lines. Although, there is no reason to be trying to force a lot of flow unless you just have money to burn on electricity.

In any case, having lower flow rate through a larger filter makes it filter better. Or another way, with a larger filter, your pump will have less resistance, thus high total flow, but the flow through each sqft within the filter is less so it catches more dirt.

I have a 1HP 2-speed (replace a 2HP single speed) pump on a 60 sqft DE filter for a 18k gallon pool.

I would suggest the 72 sqft if possible ... even bigger would be better.
 
They are coming this morning to exchange the filter! Yeah!

Now for the leak.... Need some pool brain power! We have not hit pipe yet, but there are a few revaluations that may help us figure out what going on.

When I turn one skimmer off half way... The bubbles coming out of the pool returns STOP. The small filter works better. The cloudiness improves. The pool still looses about an inch a day.

When I shut the system down, closing the skimmer valves at the equipment room, the pool still leaks, perhaps even faster. (I got up this morning, down almost another inch and a half. The pool hadn't been running all night.)

I heard a light gurgling sound near the lamp niche several times, not always. I was there when the leak detection company tested the niches. Perhaps they missed something?

I think i should call the leak detection company to come out and try again....

I will feel like I am making progress when the filter is changed out. This leak fix is the next hurdle. 10 weeks of swimming season left. Hope all the work this year will make next year better.
 
Lrooth said:
Thank you Jason!
Where is a suction pipe? Is it underground and we must keep digging? Should I call the leak detection company to come out again?

Suction pipe is a term used to describe the plumping prior to reaching the pump. So any pipe that is sucking water out of the pool. So pipe to main drain, pipe to skimmer(s) all the way back to where they enter the pump.

Supply side is all the other pipe that directs water through filter/heater back into pool.
 
That really helps me. Those lines were the ones replaced about 16 years ago when I had new skimmer baskets installed. It's about a 12 foot run to a pol equipment room that is attached to the house. Could it be anywhere in the 12 foot? There is only 4 feet under concrete.

When I was originally trying to trouble shoot, I had plug up that skimmer and it did not seem to have an affect on the leaking. In reaction to your message, I just turned off the line to the troubled skimmer. No bubbles. I'll concentrate on noting how much it leaks turned off at the pool room. Will it help if I also plug the skimmer up at the pool?

When they installed the skimmers, they cemented close the bottom drain.... I don't have one any more.
 

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