Metal stain issue's I think?? Need help please

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Texas,
I did the CYA test according to the kit and I got nothing? it's where I have to watch the little black dot in the bottom of the small tube until it disappears, which it never did?

FC was 1 x 0.5, the TC was the same reading. Should I try doing these again?
 
I did another check on my pool this morning and this is what showed

FC/CC- (1 x 0.5)? 1 heaping scoop of R-0870 to 10Ml water line Showed very light color pink and when I added 1 drop R-0871 the water turned clear, added 5 drops of R-0003 the water turned back to a very light color pink, added one drop of R-0871 water turned clear. Only one drop needed to change from clear to pink and back.
PH-8.0
TA-190
CH-360
CYA- Did not show anything? the water never got cloudy so when I put it in the small test tube the black dot never went away?
Copper-1
 
Okay, let's address a couple important things at this time:
CYA - black dot never disappears means you have little to no CYA (stabilizer) in the water. I don't recall .. did you ever add any? If not recently, then you'll want to add some stabilizer right away. Based on your pool size, 41 ounces of granular stabilizer will increase your CYA by 20 ppm. I would do that right away by placing the stabilizer in a sock and dropping in your skimmer basket or hanging hear a return jet. Squeeze it often to help it dissolve into the water. Then check it again in about 2 days (Tues or Weds). If it's not up to 30 ppm by Weds, then you can add a little more at that time.
pH - That's high, so lower it with muriatic acid to about 7.5. 38 ounces of acid should do the trick.
FC - One gallon of regular 8.25% bleach will increase your FC to about 5-6. Do that about 15 min after the acid for the pH.

Make sure the pump is running on high and mixing everything real well for the next hour or so. Then you can check the pH and FC again. Don't bother testing the CYA until Tues or Weds to give it time to show-up on the tests.

Any questions?
 
Welcome back :)

Sorry about someone being sick, yuk...

exactly what Pat said above... we will all get you going :)

I don't remember if we ever went over where to get everything, here ya go..

Bleach/liquid chlorine: get this at walmart get regular bleach 8% or liquid chlorine in the pool isle at 10%, use will use less of the 10%
baking soda: this also at walmart in the pool isle
borax
muriatic acid: MA, this is at lowes or a hardware store, pool stores also have it but way more expensive, get the 20% baume not the green stuff...
CYA: cyanuric acid, get this also at walmart, it says HTC stabilizer on the label
:)
 
Tex
Just another quick question.

I also need to get rid of the organic stain that's on the bottom of my pool. I was going to get the Jack's magic blue for vinyl liners or the A+ stain remover from in the swim. If I do this I'm not sure what they recommend my levels to be at before adding this stuff.

Should I do this first, recheck my levels and then balance my water. My wife hates this ugly stain on the bottom of the pool.

I have Baking soda, this if for raising the Alkalinity. Mine is at 190 so I want be adding that just now correct?

Regards
W&C
 
W&C, I had to go back through to the beginning of this thread to refresh my memory. Matt (JoyfulNoise) is one of our premier experts on chemical relationships and what may happen based on metals and standard levels. One thing I notice is that you are now showing a copper level of "1". As Matt mentioned previously, a copper level over .3 or so puts you at risk for water color changing and/or copper staining. So we want to be careful about managing your current levels to see if we can keep your water clean & clear without precipitating the copper out of the water onto the pool. So let's re-group and confirm some things:
- Your TA is already high, so do not add any baking soda or it will climb even higher.
- Use the acid I mentioned above to lower the pH; it will also help to lower TA a little which is good.
- Make sure you have that stabilizer soaking right away to increase CYA
- Use only enough bleach to raise your FC to about 5-6 as noted above.

We need to see if you are able to balance the water normally and hold FC before anything else. We have to keep algae away. Then you should be able to use sequestrants to manage the metal in the water and prevent staining. At the same time we'll notify Matt to review your latest posts and give us his thoughts on future metal treatment.
 
They sure do. There are a few products out there to help assist with copper management. But you can lower the pH, add some stabilizer, and a little bleach for now as noted above. I sent Matt a message about your progress and he confirmed he is going to come back here and reply to you just as soon as can. Hang in there you two!
 
+1 to getting CYA in the water asap and keeping FC up. You do not want algae to grow in the pool. Then you will have to SLAM the pool to kill the algae and high FC will exacerbate the metal staining problem. You are at extreme risk of algae forming in the pool right now. Chlorine level must be maintained above minimum level for your CYA at all times to sanitize your pool and keep it algae free. Chlorine CYA Chart

In the meantime you can review this page, Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
 

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whitneystaley said:
What can I use to suspend the cooper in the water and not cause it to add more stains to the vinyl. I guess they make some sort of liquid for doing this?

Seeing that my cooper level is high should I drain some water down and refill?

Regards
W&C
Click to expand...

W&C

I was just reading another post with metals in the water and I really don't want you to have to go through all of this Metal stain removal, sequestrant... stains return in about a week... repeat.

Matt will have to add to this and tell us if it is worth doing but this is really the best option to clear all of this up and have a truly trouble free pool, and please if anyone see's this or think this is the wrong way to accomplish this, please let me know... Right now this is just a discution on a plan of action, so don't do anything yet..

The plan:

I really want to bring your FC to SLAM levels and have you scrub your pool and stains and turn your pool green as can be, hopefully this will dissipate all your copper in the water and not on your liner

Then drain 1/3 of your water, leaving at least 1 foot in your shallow end, then refill, then empty a 1/3 out again, and then do it again...

This will use the most water but in the long run I think it will be the safest and best possible route to clearing your stains, getting the copper out and getting you to a better pool overall..

what do you think about this plan and using all this water, it will take some work on your part and I am not sure the best way to get all the copper in your water to start the drain but we will work on this...

Casey
 
W&C,

If your Cu levels are at 1ppm, then you have a problem. That is well above the threshold for staining and adding any chlorine to your water could possibly cause a HUGE mess. But let's test this out before we start going to extreme solution.

Please get a clean, white 10gal bucket of your pool water. Add to that bucket 1 tablespoon of 8.25% standard household bleach. That will raise the water's FC to by roughly 33ppm. Mix the water gently and wait to see what happens (you may need to give it a few hours); you should keep the water out of the sun and covered with a wet towel or other breathable cover. If the water turns a bluish-green color, then the copper is scaling out. You can then redo the test with half the amount of bleach and see if scaling occurs. A teaspoon of bleach should raise the FC to about 10ppm which would be SLAM level for water without any CYA in it. If your water can not tolerate 10ppm, then we'll have to go through extreme measures. But lets see what you get.

Sequestrant chemicals will hold copper in solution but the problem is they get oxidized by chlorine and require constant dosing to keep metal stains at bay. They are not something that you can use during a SLAM because the FC levels are just too high.
 
That's fine. Just adjust bleach dose accordingly. You want white and clean so you can see color differences.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
That's fine. Just adjust bleach dose accordingly. You want white and clean so you can see color differences.
Click to expand...

ok I'll try it with the 6 gal bucket and adjust then we can see what happens.

Just for reference can I add the A+ stain remover from in the swim to get rid of the present stain.

I also will be headed out of town maybe as early as the first of the week, I'll be gone for six weeks. What would you recommend me do to get my wife by until I can get back home as she really doesn't understand all what I'm trying to do. I'm working on showing her but as of now I'm still learning and trying to figure out myself with the help of TFP how to sort this mess out that the pool company has gotten me in to.

I also what to say how grateful I am to all of you guys that are working on helping me to get this pool sorted. I have been out of work for four months but as soon as I'm able I'll be supporting TFP for all the great useful tips and help you guys are helping me with. Again thanks to everyone you guys and gals are ACE!! Where would we be without you all? I'm simply amazed at just what all can be done without buying all the high dollar chemicals that the pool dealers try to stick us with.

Best Regards
W&C
 
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