Maytronics (Dolphin) reliability has become ridiculously bad - what are the best, most reliable alternatives?

[gkw4815]

I think it’s less “manufacturing issues” and more design paradigm and market desire. The fact is - TFP is full of pool-nerds. As a buddy of mine at work used to like to say - “we are NOT the norm…”.

Along these lines, I wonder if there are many non-pool nerds out there who are getting good service from their robots, and we don't hear about their issues with them here, because people are more likely to complain about poor reliability than praise good reliability?

I don't believe Consumer Reports tests pool robots or surveys reliability, so we may never know definitively if they're as consistently unreliable as the complaints on this forum suggest. FWIW, I've asked our local Pinch-a-Penny owner about his experience with robots (his branch both sells and repairs robots), and his remark was that they're less reliable than pressure cleaners and he generally steers customers to pressure cleaners (at least, if they have a booster pump or can readily add one). Also FWIW, I see a lot of dead Polaris and Maytronics robots on our local Facebook Marketplace.

I could never stomach spending $500-1000 on a piece of equipment that is unlikely to last more than a few years and cannot be economically repaired. Hopefully the new entrants into the robot cleaner market (Aiper, EVO, etc) will prove to offer more-reliable designs or at least more-affordable replacement parts.

To the OP's original question about what robots are most reliable...I've heard that Hayward Tiger Shark robots are pretty robust, although I have no personal experience with them.

 

[SJPoe]

I think it’s less “manufacturing issues” and more design paradigm and market desire.

Absolutely agree. The whole 'supply chain issues' and 'labor costs' excuse is wearing thin. If all the increases were due to labor cost, 'laborers' would be doing great.

So [Insert Manufacturer of just about anything these days] manufactures stuff to meet their cost and revenue targets and then warranties whatever they make to satisfy the consumer. 2 to 3 years is about what most consumers will think is a “good run” for a chunk of plastic with motors in it.

I fixed that for ya And to be honest, the 'warranties' for a lot of things isn't worth the paper it is printed on. My Solar Cover has a 7 year warranty...which is great until you figure out you have to ship the old cover back, and then they'll prorate the cost of a NEW cover, assuming they agree your old cover had an issue...meanwhile you have no cover and they have all the evidence.

Manufacturers, Dealers, Distributors etc don't want you to repair, they want you to replace. Every time you replace, you grease all those palms. If you throw the old one away, they don't have to stock parts for the old ones. So they made it so it simply isn't viable to repair. You think it costs $450 for a motor when THEY buy it to build a new one ? Yeah...no. Can you source the same motor independently to fix it yourself ? Also probably no.

Frankly, based on the feedback here (and in other posts), I will probably opt for a different manufacturer. Maybe it'll be better, maybe not, but I see nothing that suggests one manufacturer is any more reliable than another.

 

[Newdude]

The whole 'supply chain issues' and 'labor costs' excuse is wearing thin. If all the increases were due to labor cost, 'laborers' would be doing great.

IMO, they all proved that people will continue buying the products regardless of quality control or whatever they blame the cost increases on, so both are now out of control for the foreseeable future.

 

[ajw22]

Consumers are effectively beta testers for these products. Manufacturers do no accelerated life testing to identify and fix product weaknesses before sale. There is no 10 year reliability history of these products. And manufacturers do not create a supply chain of replacement parts for repair or publish repair manuals. Before you get a history on a product it is replaced and the consumer starts over again.

Unlike my Polaris 380 pressure cleaner that has a 25+ year history. The weaknesses are well known. Parts are readily available including rebuild kits. You know what you are getting and what to expect as a consumer. The energy inefficiencies of a cleaner pump running for a few hours of cleaning is a small price to pay. And the pressure side cleaner does not clog up the filter and cause more frequent filter cleanings.

Sometimes old reliable proven technology is superior to the latest fad product.

People like their robot cleaners until they don't.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

.... And the pressure side cleaner does not clog up the filter and cause more frequent filter cleanings....

A non-issue when using an inline leaf trap with a suction side cleaner and lining that trap with a hair net to catch fine sand and silt. My filter cleaning frequency is unaffected by the suction vac.

But I generally agree with 99.9% of the rest of your post. I did an ROI calc on my robot versus my suction cleaner based on the energy savings of (theoretically) running the VSP less and at lower speeds by not having to drive a suction vac. I say "theoretical" because, in reality, I still ran the pump the same way before and after robot simply for other reasons. But if I did run it less and at lower speed, the required time frame for the robot to "pay for itself" in savings was 10+ years (assuming no consumables replacement costs) ... that's well beyond the life of any robot and well beyond the lifetime of any consumable part (treads, wheels, etc).

So, in general, arguments based on supposed "efficiencies" and "cost savings" rarely ever materialize. Robots never "pay for themselves". Very few pieces of pool equipment ever "pay for themselves".

Nowadays I simply tell people to get a robot if you want one but always know that it will be the most expensive way to clean your pool and that you will need to factor in buying a new one every few years or so. As long as that fits into your personal paradigm for budgeted pool costs, then go for it.

 

[ajw22]

A non-issue when using an inline leaf trap with a suction side cleaner and lining that trap with a hair net to catch fine sand and silt. My filter cleaning frequency is unaffected by the suction vac.

The inline leaf trap seems to be rarely installed in builds we see that have suction cleaner lines.

Your setup should be standard for any suction line cleaner pool.

 

[SJPoe]

Polaris 380 pressure cleaner

So, I'm not that clear on how these work.

So does the pressure side cleaner work more like the robot - i.e. it's driven by the outflow from the pump, but otherwise its throw it in and let it run ?
Do they 'scrub' like the robots (although I've often wondered what the scrubbing is actually achieving but does make me less guilty that I'm not brushing every week...).
Assuming they need their own pumps (at an additional cost) or decent pressure from your existing pump...

I guess I have 6 months to figure out what I'm going to do in April when it's time to open the pool back up

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The inline leaf trap seems to be rarely installed in builds we see that have suction cleaner lines.

Your setup should be standard for any suction line cleaner pool.

Even my builder didn’t give me one right away. He just plugged the hose into the suction port and told me to check and clean the pump strainer basket daily. That was all well and good until the mesquite leaves and needles dropped and I got a suction line clog. After fighting to free the line of all the crud, I immediately went out and got the inline leaf trap. Not only have I never gotten a clogged line again but I also no longer have to open up my pump every few days to clean the strainer.

You would think they would be standard operating procedure for all suction line installations but they aren’t.

 

[ajw22]

So does the pressure side cleaner work more like the robot - i.e. it's driven by the outflow from the pump, but otherwise its throw it in and let it run ?

A pressure side cleaner is powered by the water pressure from the booster pump.

The good thing is there are no electronic parts in it. It is powered by hydraulics of internal water jets that squirt on a turbine wheel that turns the wheels for movement.

The pressure cleaner can live in the pool all the time. I push it into a corner when using the pool.

My Polaris runs 3 hours a day between 6AM and 9AM. It captures debris in a mesh bag.

Do they 'scrub' like the robots (although I've often wondered what the scrubbing is actually achieving but does make me less guilty that I'm not brushing every week...).

The Polaris cleaners have a foam tail scrubber that sweeps back and forth along the floor and walls to brush it. I find it is effective and the tail scrubber wears down from its brushing and needs replacement every few months.

Assuming they need their own pumps (at an additional cost) or decent pressure from your existing pump...

Polaris 280 and 380 need a booster pump.

Polaris 360 is made to work with a filter pump.

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I guess I have 6 months to figure out what I'm going to do in April when it's time to open the pool back up

Polaris Pool Cleaners - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Similarly, a suction side cleaner moves by the hydraulic action of water being sucked up through it (as it is connected to the suction side of the plumbing). In the case of my Sandshark, the water moves past an oscillator valve that creates a back & forth motion and is attached to a split gear and ratchet mechanism that causes the hose shaft to slowly rotate one direction than another (this is what causes the cleaner head to slowly turn so it doesn’t just move in a straight line). The cleaner has a unique offset center of gravity and so the oscillator motion of the suction plate causes the head to move forward. Couple that with the slowing turning hose shaft and you get complete coverage of the pool. My cleaner could climb walls if I ran the pump fast enough but I don’t find that to very useful or effective. The bottom of the cleaner is a rubber mat with fingers that allows water flow up into the cleaner but also “scrubs” the surface as the cleaner moves. The rubber bottom plate gets worn down over time (years) and is replaced as needed.

 

[Hootz]

Similarly, a suction side cleaner moves by the hydraulic action of water being sucked up through it (as it is connected to the suction side of the plumbing). In the case of my Sandshark, the water moves past an oscillator valve that creates a back & forth motion and is attached to a split gear and ratchet mechanism that causes the hose shaft to slowly rotate one direction than another (this is what causes the cleaner head to slowly turn so it doesn’t just move in a straight line). The cleaner has a unique offset center of gravity and so the oscillator motion of the suction plate causes the head to move forward. Couple that with the slowing turning hose shaft and you get complete coverage of the pool. My cleaner could climb walls if I ran the pump fast enough but I don’t find that to very useful or effective. The bottom of the cleaner is a rubber mat with fingers that allows water flow up into the cleaner but also “scrubs” the surface as the cleaner moves. The rubber bottom plate gets worn down over time (years) and is replaced as needed.

I will consider this cleaner when the warrior dies. I have used the standard kreepy krawly in the past; my complaint with these cleaners is they seemed to cover the same spots over and over, leaving the rest untouched. The steering effect of the sandshark apparently allows for better coverage.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I will consider this cleaner when the warrior dies. I have used the standard kreepy krawly in the past; my complaint with these cleaners is they seemed to cover the same spots over and over, leaving the rest untouched. The steering effect of the sandshark apparently allows for better coverage.

I find that the age/stiffness of the suction line and changes in flow (due to filter loading) tend to be the biggest issue with lack of coverage. The Sandshark comes worth a flow tool that you can put in the end of the hose to indicate if the flow rate is sufficient. There’s is also a short, 1ft leader hose that comes off the vacuum head that is absolutely essential for proper operation as it tends to bend a little less than a longer hose which helps keeps the cleaner pressed against the surface. There are also hose weights that need to be added to every third segment connection to properly keep the assembled hose submerged. This is all covered in the user and setup manual in great detail but, like most situations, people don’t read the manuals and then they tend to blame to tool for not working on the first try.

The Kreepy Krawly Sandshark and Rebel suction cleaners (both by Pentair) are good suction cleaners. The Rebel is a wheeled style cleaner.

 

[98Poolmaster]

I went back to a suction cleaner but I have a dedicated wall port for attaching it to the suction side of the pool plumbing and I can automate it's valve. I basically did an $1100 experiment 6+ years ago when I bought the S300i that proved it's no better than my suction cleaner, or, it's not "better enough" to justify the cost. My suction cleaner would cost around $250 to replace just the head and I plan to go with a Rebel V2 when next I feel like replacing my KK Sandshark. I have all the hoses and in-line leaf canisters. So I can spend $250 every 2-3 years for a brand new suction cleaner or around $200 every year for an electronic robot cleaner .... I'll stick with suction thank you very much.

I agree the leaf canister holds more than a robotic and since you have a dedicated vac line it’s better than a VacMate in the skimmer the Rebel and MX 8 are good suction cleaners

 

[malba2366]

If you aren't happy with Maytronics, then try Polaris. There are some off brand Chinese ones around too, not sure if they do a good job.