Marble patio a good choice for cool feet?

[Mattlar0806]

Hi everyone,

I think I may have posted original thread in wrong location “everything else”

Forgive me, I’m New here.

Doing a Gunite / patio renovation soon and been obsessing over patio material. Looking for some advice.

My number one priority is cool feet.

I am in the northeast so have some fear about travertine - freeze thaw and also my wife doesn’t like the holes.

So I am thinking of marble something like this:
PAVERS - CREMA OLIVA - MARMIRO STONES

I can’t seem to find any temperature tests on marble. I have a few pieces of travertine and pavers in my backyard and so far I am not impressed. Greyed nickel techo bloc, platinum Cambridge and silver travertine (light and dark piece). The pavers both get hot especially the Cambridge. Techobloc has been okay outside of the recent 90d days. The darker silver travertine gets too hot to walk on as well. The lighter one barely acceptable at best.

I’m concerned because everywhere you read says travertine is amazing, yet my actually experience with these samples is not amazing. I’m afraid marble would be similar.

Any suggestions / experience with light colored marble? Thanks!

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome! Your posting is fine, but I went ahead and deleted the other as it became a duplicate. Feel free to post back to this thread as much as needed until we can get you some feedback on the decking products you are looking for. Lots of members here on the forum.

Also see --------> Pool Care Basics

 

[kimkats]

The biggest worry I have about marble is how slick it can be. Get a piece large enough to put your whole foot on. Wet it down good and see just how easy your foot slides on it.

 

[Dirk]

Calling @mcleod...

 

[BDY]

We redid our backyard when we put the pool in this year. The wood deck and fieldturf are extremely hot to walk on in blazing Texas sun, but the 24x48 porcelin tiles (3/4”) have not been an issue yet. We used Landmark tiles (artic white). Very happy with them

 

[Mattlar0806]

Thanks! I have a porcelain sample as well that’s a medium shade of grey and it gets by far the hottest of the bunch. Im surprised color can make that much of a difference. Do different porcelain brands handle heat better?

 

[BDY]

Hmmm maybe different types of tile
Natural stone “should” be the coolest but we didn’t look at any of those as we wanted durability and ease of washing

One thing to note - the more hard scape you have the more heat overall will be retained …. We underestimated the effect on the plants and have had really water a lot during heat waves compared to other areas of the yard

 

[Mattlar0806]

Hmmm maybe different types of tile
Natural stone “should” be the coolest but we didn’t look at any of those as we wanted durability and ease of washing

One thing to note - the more hard scape you have the more heat overall will be retained …. We underestimated the effect on the plants and have had really water a lot during heat waves compared to other areas of the yard

Thanks for the advice. We are actively trying to reduce patio size and it’s a large cost of a very expensive project. Patio doesn’t yield the same value to us as it does to others. I’d rather spend the money elsewhere. I bit counter intuitive given the desire for natural stone and that cost but I’m also trying to maximize comfort.

 

[JupiterFL]

I have sand blasted marble and we love it. It does not get hot nor slippery. It does get organic stains from leaves, etc. falling on it, but the sun bleaches them out in 48 hours. If your patio doesn't get a lot of sun it might be something to consider. Ours faces due west.

The pavers also had a lot of stains when first installed. Our PB said it was the minerals coming out of the stone. He told us to keep it wet to help draw them out and the sun will bleach them. That worked for us, but again, you need to get sun on them.

 

[JupiterFL]

One other note, they are super bright when the sun is on them. If you don't have sunglasses on when outside, then walk inside, you can't see a thing.

 

[mcleod]

Hi everyone,

I think I may have posted original thread in wrong location “everything else”

Forgive me, I’m New here.

Doing a Gunite / patio renovation soon and been obsessing over patio material. Looking for some advice.

My number one priority is cool feet.

I am in the northeast so have some fear about travertine - freeze thaw and also my wife doesn’t like the holes.

So I am thinking of marble something like this:
PAVERS - CREMA OLIVA - MARMIRO STONES

I can’t seem to find any temperature tests on marble. I have a few pieces of travertine and pavers in my backyard and so far I am not impressed. Greyed nickel techo bloc, platinum Cambridge and silver travertine (light and dark piece). The pavers both get hot especially the Cambridge. Techobloc has been okay outside of the recent 90d days. The darker silver travertine gets too hot to walk on as well. The lighter one barely acceptable at best.

I’m concerned because everywhere you read says travertine is amazing, yet my actually experience with these samples is not amazing. I’m afraid marble would be similar.

Any suggestions / experience with light colored marble? Thanks!

Good Morning @Mattlar0806
@Dirk messaged me about your post. Travertine can be filled so there are no holes (of significance). A light colored stone is preferable. Coolness to the touch is a subjective evaluation.
To make it more scientific get an infrared thermometer at the big box stores or Harbor Freight.
Obtain samples of different materials–travertine, flagstone, sandstone, porcelain, concrete, and flamed granite (personal fav), whatever floats your boat.
Place them in the location of use, at dawn, and take a measurement of each stone temp. Record the figures. Measure again at noon. Record. Measure at sunset. Record. Measure once more before bed, if possible. The results will provide a range of temperature retention for the stones as well as an indicator of temperature dissipation (the late night measurement).
Once you have one that is acceptable, then explore how much maintenance will be required to have a reasonably decent looking surface.
If you drop another post about your selection, I may be able to guide you towards sealing and routine maintenance.

McLeod

 

[kimkats]

What a great post above. I love the idea of the infrared thermometer. That takes all of the guess work out of it! Thanks!

 

[Mattlar0806]

Good Morning @Mattlar0806
@Dirk messaged me about your post. Travertine can be filled so there are no holes (of significance). A light colored stone is preferable. Coolness to the touch is a subjective evaluation.
To make it more scientific get an infrared thermometer at the big box stores or Harbor Freight.
Obtain samples of different materials–travertine, flagstone, sandstone, porcelain, concrete, and flamed granite (personal fav), whatever floats your boat.
Place them in the location of use, at dawn, and take a measurement of each stone temp. Record the figures. Measure again at noon. Record. Measure at sunset. Record. Measure once more before bed, if possible. The results will provide a range of temperature retention for the stones as well as an indicator of temperature dissipation (the late night measurement).
Once you have one that is acceptable, then explore how much maintenance will be required to have a reasonably decent looking surface.
If you drop another post about your selection, I may be able to guide you towards sealing and routine maintenance.

McLeod

Thank you so much. This was a great response and the only way to really go about being sure.

Coincidently, I just purchased an infrared and it came yesterday afternoon. I’ve been zapping my samples constantly haha. I’ve found ~115 to be the breaking point where they are too hot to comfortably stand on for extended time periods. Today was about 87 here and only 2 samples were able to stay within this threshold.

I am curious - how do you go about filling in travertine - is it the stone producer / product or an after purchase filler? The stone provider marmiro’s travertine had the soft edges as well which my wife didn’t like. It adds to the rustic imperfect look but also shows the weakness in the stone.

I guess the question - can you can get travertine in straight hard edged no hole form? I think we’d be interested in that.

Thanks

 

[Schwimmbad]

I wanted to get the MSI Arterra Porcelain pavers but my hardscape contractor didn’t work with that product and didn’t want to try something they haven’t installed before. Probably for the best they didn’t want to do something new on my dime. I never got so far to test out their thermo properties but they say their performance is similar to natural stone. It is anti slip and very low maintenance.

Pavers - Porcelain Pavers - Arterra Porcelain Pavers

MSI's Arterra Porcelain Pavers are durable, low maintenance and high design. Use for outdoor design projects including patios, driveways, pools, and more.

www.msisurfaces.com

 

[02slowride]

@Mattlar0806 - in your sample testing, what do you have your paver sitting on?

Question to the wider experts - How is surface temperature effected by placing/laying the sample paver product on various surfaces as opposed to an installed product fixed to a mortar bed/ prepared sand base?

The reason I ask is, I’m thinking in the context of a heat sink and how a thermal conductor plays a critical role to dissipating the heat. FYI - In my pool build I notice temp differences of the identical installed travertine coping around the pool (cooler) as opposed the the raised spa (hotter). Same conditions/sun exposure, but with the raised spa there is less contact with earth/ground to dissipate the thermal heat. Well at least that is my theory.

 

[Mattlar0806]

@Mattlar0806 - in your sample testing, what do you have your paver sitting on?

Question to the wider experts - How is surface temperature effected by placing/laying the sample paver product on various surfaces as opposed to an installed product fixed to a mortar bed/ prepared sand base?

The reason I ask is, I’m thinking in the context of a heat sink and how a thermal conductor plays a critical role to dissipating the heat. FYI - In my pool build I notice temp differences of the identical installed travertine coping around the pool (cooler) as opposed the the raised spa (hotter). Same conditions/sun exposure, but with the raised spa there is less contact with earth/ground to dissipate the thermal heat. Well at least that is my theory.

I’ve really wanted to know this as well. I’ve tested it in 2 locations - my yard - dry dirt / grassy area as well as my old pool deck. Which at this point is a wood deck with a layer of roofing paper followed by artificial turf. I did this a cheap stop gap until we ripped out this wood deck.

I’d really like to know if placed on a concrete slab and installed properly if this would yield lower surface temps for the same stones.

Great question!

 

[GasDoc]

The biggest worry I have about marble is how slick it can be. Get a piece large enough to put your whole foot on. Wet it down good and see just how easy your foot slides on it.

That company that he listed, Marmiro Stone, does offer a sandblasted finish on their marble to give it a bit more texture than the polished marble finish. I wonder if the finish gets smoother and polished with time as the stone weathers and wears because Marble is a soft stone. I agree, that slippery is a concern with marble.

 

[mcleod]

Hopefully this reply is timely.
Slip resistance is achieved through a process of micro-abrasion, creating peaks and valleys on the surface. Micro-abrasion is done chemically or with a blast medium like sand or glass beads. It can be done at the factory or quarry, or at the place of installation. The former is preferable for ease of installation. Either process creates a suction action when a foot is placed upon the damp or wet surface.

The co-efficient of friction (level of slickness) is measurable. There are accredited companies that can do this measuring on a sample of the stone/tile you are considering. It would be worth considering. There are some other factors to consider.

As the valleys of abraded surface become filled with body oils, dry skin, and environmental particulates, the slip resistance is reduced. So ask yourself how much cleaning are you willing to undertake? The answer is a combination of the level of use the pool will have, and the environment in which it sits. The cleaning is accomplished with a chemical cleaner, a deck brush and a high powered hose and nozzle, or pressure washer. I have a chemical recommendation at the end.

The use of a marble has some considerations as well. Typically marble veins are softer than the solid color sections and would be the first to evidence deterioration. Most marbles have iron oxide which can lead to rust spots. I would check the mineral composition of the stones under consideration. A dealer or quarry should be able to get this information. Another consideration is the color of the stone. White stones reflecting the summer sun are bright and harsh on the eyes without sunglasses. An abraded surface may modify that but maybe not enough. Check it out. With that said, here are some stones to check out. I don't recall the makers off hand.
1. A white Vermont marble. Low water absorption. Can be honed.
2. A Type III Dolomitic limestone. Low water absorption.
3. Princess White Quartzite.

Cleaning. I have used a cleaning product called Stone Pro Crystal Clean. You can find it on line.
The websites below carry it.
Home. ESP Sales Marble, Granite and Quartz products

@Dirk

 

[Dirk]

^^^^^
I brought him in! I brought him in!! So I get partial credit for every smart thing he writes. Of course, if something goes wrong, well, I hardly knew him. He was a good neighbor, and quiet, but he kept to himself.

 

[Dirk]

PS. As someone who inherited stone coping and concrete decking from a previous owner (which McLeod had to fix at no little expense), I can attest that putting a lot of effort into making sure you get the right stone will pay off, big time, over the course of many years of pool ownership and maintenance. Do the work now, and avoid 100x the work and expense later.

It was something the previous owner obviously didn't do, and now I have to pay.