Maintaining FC Level

Drd

Bronze Supporter
Jun 21, 2017
139
AZ
I deal with extreme heat where I live and also get direct sun light on my pool in the late afternoon when it's most intense and I have had experiences with going through a lot of chlorine, struggling to keep chlorine in the pool along with re-occuring algae blooms. One thing I have learned is just how important it is to keep the PH level low enough in order to maximize the santiziing efficiency of the chlorine.. If you have high PH say 8 ppm like I did, the chlorines "effectiveness" will be demishish to approx 25% of it's original stated potency. So say the brand of Chlorine you are using has a potency rating of 12%, it would be more like adding 3% instead due to high PH. So even though you think you added the correct amount of chlorine to obtain the correct PPM FC, your chlorine just isn't performing to that level and you have to add more and more chlorine to make up for it

So now when I am testing my focus is first and formost on my PH level keeping it balanced between 7.2-7.4 ppm (adjusting my TA as needed to stablize it) to maximize the chlorines effectiveness to sanitize killling bacteria and algae. I also add an algicide as part of a preventative maintenance treatment once a week too, along with alternating non chlorine shock with Chlorine shock treatments too. The non Chlorine shock (oxidizer/clearifier) is not a sanitizer, it performs oxidization of organic matter like sweat, urine, leaves, dirt, "dead algae too" etc. that algae feeds on, which takes the load off my regular chlorine so it can focus on killing bacteria and alage. Another side benefit is it can help lowering PH too, which for me is very helpful in controling my high PH levels using less acid too. Yes, non chlorine shock/oxidizer has sulfates true, but is really harmless unless you get extremely high levels of it much like Calcium (TDS) which is resolved when you do occassional drain and refills. This approach has worked wonders for me so far. If you do get a algae breakout, then the SLAM method can help you deal with that, but again the same thing still holds true, important to get the PH level down before you start that program.

Note: Unstablized Chlorine already has a high PH of 13 ppm by itself; it is suppose to adjust down I understand due to chemical changes that take place once added to the pool Salt systems are also synonymous with producing high PH levels too.
 
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Now when I am testing my focus in first and formost on my PH on keeping my PH around 7.4 now (adjusting my TA as needed to stablize it) where my chlorine can maximize it's ability to sanitize killlimg bacteria and algae.
If you maintain FC for your CYA according to this link-->FC/CYA Levels, then any pH in the 7s is just fine and the FC will sanitize a pool.
I also add an algicide as part of a preventative maintenance treatment once a week too along with alternating non chlorine shock with Chlorine shock treatments too.
We do not recommend algaecide, nor shocking pool. By maintaining proper FC, per the FC/CYA Levels tool/chart, there is no need for either.



The non Chlorine shock (oxidizer/clearifier) gets rid organic matter like sweat, urine, leaves, dirt, dead algae etc. that algae feeds on and also takes the load off my regular chlorine so it can focus on killing bacteria and alage
We don't recommend non-chlorine shock or clarifiers. Using non chlorine shock (Potassium Monopersulfate or MPS) will give you a false CC reading for a while after using it. Using liquid chlorine and SWCG and maintaining proper level of FC for you CYA will take care of all of it.
 
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If you have high PH say 8 ppm like I did, the chlorines "effectiveness" will be reduced to approx 25% of it's stated potency
Only if you have zero CYA. Do you have zero CYA? That'd be unwise anywhere, but especially somewhere like Arizona...

so say you're using 12% rated chlorine, it would be more like adding 3% instead due to high PH
What are you even trying to say here?
 
If you maintain FC for your CYA according to this link-->FC/CYA Levels, then any pH in the 7s is just fine and the FC will sanitize a pool.

We do not recommend algaecide, nor shocking pool. By maintaining proper FC, per the FC/CYA Levels tool/chart, there is no need for either.




We don't recommend non-chlorine shock or clarifiers. Using non chlorine shock (Potassium Monopersulfate or MPS) will give you a false CC reading for a while after using it. Using liquid chlorine and SWCG and maintaining proper level of FC for you CYA will take care of all of it.
That is actually the issue at hand, having difficulty maintaining FC levels, yes if FC and PH are fine your pool is balanced and all is great. I have never had a CC problem. People live in different climates and pools can have different levels of UV expposesure too. I get a lot of debre in my pool too mostly from evnirmental and so nothing is a one size fits all unfortunately. The basic principles are valuable, but sometimes you have to fine turn them for your situation too. Winter and summer have different levels of maintenance too. Summer every day I have to stay on top of my pool. I personally like using a Chlorine feeder much like you do with tablets so you have a nice steady flow of chlorine instead of adding a large amount all at one too.
 
I deal with extreme heat where I live and also get direct sun light on my pool in the late afternoon when it's most intense and I have had experiences with going through a lot of chlorine, struggling to keep chlorine in the pool along with re-occuring algae blooms. One thing I have learned is just how important it is to keep the PH level low enough in order to maximize the santiziing efficiency of the chlorine.. If you have high PH say 8 ppm like I did, the chlorines "effectiveness" will be demishish to approx 25% of it's original stated potency. So say the brand of Chlorine you are using has a potency rating of 12%, it would be more like adding 3% instead due to high PH. So even though you think you added the correct amount of chlorine to obtain the correct PPM FC, your chlorine just isn't performing to that level and you have to add more and more chlorine to make up for it

So now when I am testing my focus is first and formost on my PH level keeping it balanced between 7.2-7.4 ppm (adjusting my TA as needed to stablize it) to maximize the chlorines effectiveness to sanitize killling bacteria and algae. I also add an algicide as part of a preventative maintenance treatment once a week too, along with alternating non chlorine shock with Chlorine shock treatments too. The non Chlorine shock (oxidizer/clearifier) is not a sanitizer, it performs oxidization of organic matter like sweat, urine, leaves, dirt, "dead algae too" etc. that algae feeds on, which takes the load off my regular chlorine so it can focus on killing bacteria and alage. Another side benefit is it can help lowering PH too, which for me is very helpful in controling my high PH levels using less acid too. Yes, non chlorine shock/oxidizer has sulfates true, but is really harmless unless you get extremely high levels of it much like Calcium (TDS) which is resolved when you do occassional drain and refills. This approach has worked wonders for me so far. If you do get a algae breakout, then the SLAM method can help you deal with that, but again the same thing still holds true, important to get the PH level down before you start that program.

Note: Unstablized Chlorine already has a high PH of 13 ppm by itself; it is suppose to adjust down I understand due to chemical changes that take place once added to the pool Salt systems are also synonymous with producing high PH levels too.
It seems like you are adding things that aren't necessary. When you add algaecides and chlorine, the chlorine eats the algaecide up. The pool store loves you as a customer. Ditch the other stuff and stick with chlorine, following the TFP process and you will be algae free. I have only bought a couple of bottles of MA from the pool store this season, because the MA from my local Home Depot has been there for 3 seasons and the bottles are brittle.
 
It seems like you are adding things that aren't necessary. When you add algaecides and chlorine, the chlorine eats the algaecide up. The pool store loves you as a customer. Ditch the other stuff and stick with chlorine, following the TFP process and you will be algae free. I have only bought a couple of bottles of MA from the pool store this season, because the MA from my local Home Depot has been there for 3 seasons and the bottles are brittle.
Thanks for the advice I do appreciate it, but I tried just using the two chemicals MA and CH plus a base of 30 ppm CYA, but using unstablized chorline is just that it's difficult to keep balanced and you miss a step and algae is at your back door and high PH/TA constantly too, so I'm buying losts of CH and MA as a result. I see you live in Pennsylvania and right now your temp is 79 degrees while it's 110 degrees here in Arizona with my water temp at 90 degrees. My pool gets west sun exposure too, if I bought a home with a pool again the pool would be on the east side of the house so it's shaded in the afternoon when the sun is most intense. As we know algae loves warm still water and I can't run the pump during peak time or my electric bill goes out the roof. Adding one lb bg of non chlorine oxidizer and 2 oz of algaecide once a week keeps the alage at bay, even if my chlorine is zero which has happened. Today my pool is crystal clear like glass and although I added chlorine last night and today, I have only .5 FC right now @ 5 pm; not what I am suppose to have after adding the required amount of chlorine per the pool calculator. My PH is 7.4 as I am trying to lower my TA which is 90 now, trying to reach 80 so I don't get ph jumps, but with unstablized 12% chlorine having a PH of 13, it's been a constant battle to keep it around 7.4-7.6 so the CSI is balanced -/+ 3. I have been adding the chlorine in all at once, but I have a Liquidator feeder up and ready just need enough chlorine which takes 6 gallons to get the right mixture as the pump runs (pool water to Chlorine) and then it's only a small steady addition at night as the pump continues to run, which might help keep the high PH spikes happening as I've been told that the chemical process lowers it back down not sure I've seen that happen yet. I would appreciate you providing your source on "chlorine consumes algaecide" I cant find anything online to support that fact. I did learn that mustard algae(which is what I get) and black algae (more advanced form) are chlorine resistant. I also get a lot of plant and dust in my pool when the winds pick up and that feeds the algae. I find the oxidizer I use eliminates the food source too. This leaves my chlorine more available to kill bacteria and hopefully reduce the demand on buying chlorine. I feed the chlorine at night usually. I don't want to add more CYA because it just requires more chlorine too; kind of a caught 22. Beleive me, I don't want to put anything more in my pool than what it takes to maintain it healthy to swim in and so it's not damaging pool/equipment. I am not trying to be indifferent to the methods promoted on TFP, but after spending a lot of time over the years trying to research and learn the chemistry etc., this is the one maintenance program that is working the best for me. I just don't think given all the variables, it's not a one size fits all and you have to tweak it here and there to find your own sweet spot! I wish I could afford an electric cover, that could solve a lot of issues too.
 
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Funny, bunch of us on TFP (including in Arizona and other hot desert states) feel the same way yet put a fraction of the things in our pool as you put in yours.
Well like I said, it's not a one size fits all I guess! I see you are from Ohio which is 75 degrees right now but very muggy! I only put 2 more things in my pool once a week and some Descale water treatment once a month so no scale on my tile or high calcium issues either, which I have but it's in suspension until I drain it. I go through one bottle of algaecide treament a summer and I buy a case of non chlorine oxidizer so I get a good price on that too. What is costly is the HASA 12% Chlorine 38.00 a case of 4 gals (returnable) and Acid because I have lung issues I can't use the cheap Muriatic acid, I therefore use dry acid and I buy that in bulk but it's still 2.25 a lb and to lower my PH one marker it takes at least 1 1/2 cups so it goes pretty quickly with constant fighting high PH. I'd go back to tablets but as soon as the CYA gets to 100 ppm which take hardly anytime at all if you have to keep adding more and more Triclor pucks due to increasing CYA levels at 6 ppm per 3" tab and 2 tabs min per week to start for a 10,000 gal pool will multiply fast and then you have to switch to liquid chlorine anyway at even higher required levels to have sufficient FC and then sttill have to drain your pool at the end of the season anyway. So tabs are a short term easy maintenance program at first that puts you into a more expensive one later at best good while you are on vacation. So I think my method may turn out to cost less than the supposed minimalist versions discribed above if I don't require as much liquid chloriine and it's resulting high PH issues. I was once told to put one triclor tab in my liquid chlorine feeder (suspended from the bed of chlorine) to help control the high PH, interesting never did tried it yet. Also using a chlorine tank (feeder) drops the salt residue out of solution and collects at the bottom of the tank which you clean out and dispose of once or twice a year whereas pouring it from the jug directly into the pool all the salt is going straight into your pool adding to TDS. Avoiding having to drain your pool water or having it filtered as long as possible is more savings too. Stay tuned!
 
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CH is calcium - something you don't need to add in AZ with our hard water.

One size DOES fit all - TFP works whether in the desert southwest or in Toronto or anywhere else.
Muriatic acid and liquid chlorine will work just fine in AZ - just like they will in pretty much everywhere else.

All that other stuff you are putting in your pool is causing more issues than you think.

The pH being 7.2 or 8.0 doesn't appreciably affect chlorine effectiveness - as long as you have CYA in the pool water. Start with CYA 30. Once you pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, increase CYA to 50. Use the FC/CYA Levels chart to determine FC target range and dose for the high end of target range.

First - fully embrace the TFP method. Learn your pool and what it needs.
Add liquid chlorine daily or every other day. Do it manually so you learn your pool. You can go back to the Liquidator later - once you learn your pool's needs.

In AZ, with our 110+ daytime and 85 nighttime temps, the chlorine in the Liquidator will degrade quickly.
Consider replacing the Liquidator with a SWG to make pool maintenance even easier.

I successfully used liquid chlorine for over 10 years in AZ before switching to a SWG a couple years ago.
It can easily be done.
 
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