losing prime when attempting to vacuum - even pool experts at a loss

[dmirando]

Hi Everyone , I am new to this website. And i am desperate for help. we just opened the pool the other day , all is going well, until we went to vacuum for the first time and we lose prime. Called Leslie's Pools, they said change the vacuum head, we did, change the hose, we did, change the oring in the little filter that sits next to the pump, today we changed the skimmer cap where you connect the hose, Everyone is at a loss, we have no idea why we are losing prime, it is filtering fine , backwashing fine , lots of pressure, but as soon as we attach the filled water hose to the skimmer cap/with elbow, in the water , it loses prime instantly.
We really need some ideas, we called a couple of pool repairs , and they are at a loss ??? someone please help me ....
appreciate any and all advice
thanks
Debbie

 

[Texas Splash]

Hi Debbie and welcome to TFP! These type of vacuums can be a bit finicky, and even the best suction-type products can let air in, but you shouldn't lose prime. Since you've changed so much items already, I'm going to mention a couple other items just in case they may apply:
1 - The pump basket (clear lid) O-ring you replaced .... did you lube it with pool (silicone) lube?
2 - Is the water level high enough in the skimmer to submerge the elbow where the hose connects?

The system may get by normally since the pump is below the waterline, but once you restrict water flow with a hose, things tighten-up and perhaps that limited water flow is enough to make those areas more susceptible to air intake. Just a though. Maybe others will have an idea or two. We'll watch to see how things go. Have a nice weekend.

 

[Catanzaro]

Can you please take a picture of your equipment pad with the valves? Also, how many skimmers & assuming no main drain as above ground pool. Exactly how are you starting the process?

For example, I shut off my 2nd skimmer to vacuum from the first skimmer. This creates more suction. If I want even more suction just to pick up leaves and certain spots, I close the main drain. Essentially creating more suction. Try working with the hose only and your hand. When are you loosing suction, that is after doing what and how?

 

[CJadamec]

What type of plumbing connects the skimmer to the pump? If it's cheap flexible hose it may be old and tired and being crushed by the added suction pressure the vacuum adds to the system.

When you say it looses prime what exactly is happening? Is the pump basket filling with air or is the pump just not moving water. When you remove the vacuum hose does the pump fill right back up with water and go back to business as normal?

 

[dmirando]

Hi - so great to get some ideas, we have hard piping , very hard hoses , also replaced vacuum hoses - the pump basket is filled with water, once we attach the vacuum hose into the skimmer, it fills with air drops to the bottom, when we remove hose , we have to shut off pump, open pump basket a little bit to release the air and then start over again. been doing this for 4 days. never had this problem before , it filters fine, backwashes etc. we have checked for every little crack,tightened all the connections, just changed the o ring in the pump basket, made sure to use the lubricant. everyone at a loss as to what is the problem.

 

[dmirando]

Hi , ok, i start with putting vacuum hose in return to fill it up with water , the vacuum head on the pole falls to the bottom , we connect the skimmer lid with the elbow - make sure everything under water , the minute we connect, you can hear the air near the pump filter and it swooshes and water drops to the bottom, we shut off pump remove everything and then start over .... so tired. we even connected the hose right into the skimmer , but same results , just lots of air

 

[pookiesunshine]

yes, pictures might be helpful. so this is the first year this has happened, no problems in previous years? if so, what has changed-new pump, etc.? [i see your notes on hoses, heads, no need to repeat that]. [nevermind, you answered before i could post. haha. When you attach the vacuum hose to skimmer, is this done beneath the water level so no air is introduced there? I assume you are filling the hose with water before attaching but you did not say.]

 

[dmirando]

Hi , thanks so much, glad to join the group , for your questions, yes we replaced the o ring and made sure to lube it with silicone lube, and yes, we make sure we have high water levels when we summerge everything thing. - this is so frustrating , now my husband said he found a little leak on a hose under the outside skimmer , so he is going to tighten it, can this be the problem ??

- - - Updated - - -

Hi , will try to post pictures as it is happening. and we have had pools 20 years, a couple of them, this is a first.... last year, we replaced the pump, but had no problems then entire season . we do everything beneath the water level . and yes we are making sure the hose is completely filled with water before attaching. it is actually a two man job, as i hold everyrthing in under the water and my husband turns on the pump , urgh!!! we are so at a loss, no one can figure it out.

 

[Texas Splash]

now my husband said he found a little leak on a hose under the outside skimmer , so he is going to tighten it, can this be the problem ??

Absolutely! Air in the system has to be coming from the suction side - from the poolside skimmer to the pump. That's assuming the vacuum itself is not an issue which it seems as though you've ruled-out. The leak may be so tiny that's it doesn't effect normal operation. But once you start in vacuum mode, the addition suction pressure/restrictions could be making the smaller air leak a monster.

 

[dmirando]

Hi everyone - Success!!!!!! - we had a small leak on the hose right under the outside skimmer , my husband tightened it and off we go..........
thanks for everyones advise . Its a pleasure to have joined.

happy swimming ....

 

[Texas Splash]

Outstanding! Extra points to the husband for cracking the code. Enjoy.

Oh, one final thought that I didn't want to bring-up during the vacuum issue ..... be careful about that Frog mineral system. Do a quick search above for Frog and you'll see what I mean. Frog = minerals/metals = no good for water down the line. Just had to say that. :blah:

Have a great weekend.

 

[dmirando]

thank you - have a great holiday as well. and as for the Frog , im afraid to read - i have been using this system for about 12 years, never had a problem.
and remember , we are in NY , so my pool is open for about 3 months total, and if i use it 10 times its alot

 

[Texas Splash]

i have been using this system for about 12 years, never had a problem. and remember , we are in NY , so my pool is open for about 3 months total, and if i use it 10 times its a lot

Your saving grace may be your location. If I recall, many folks in your area see lots of water replacement not only from rain, but also from the winter closing process and snow if the pool is uncovered. So with water exchange, the metal/mineral content of the water would go back down. So if that's the case for you, it's a very good thing. You'll know if the Frog is causing problems if your water begins to turn a bright translucent green, yellow, or you begin to see staining throughout the pool. Hopefully that never happens, but at least you know. 12 years is a good run, so I hope it stays that way.