Alright, here's the setup. I bought a house that had been a rental for a long time. The owner lived in Hawaii and did not much more than collect rent. Of course it had an in ground pool (vinyl liner, and old Hayward sand filter). We bought the house, knowing the pool was in questionable condition. This is in Minnesota and I'm doubting the pool was winterized properly if at all at times. I went to the local pool store and got a baseline and its what you would expect. PH through the roof (OVR 8.6) no chlorine (of course) The hardness was at 87 ppm (the pool store guy was like "Someone must have filled it with soft water"... more likely it's just been rain and snow keeping the water level up.) To top it off there seems to be a leak (somewhere) in the pipes to at least the skimmers or the bottom drain (taking it on faith that there is one, but I'm not sure its works at all.) or a rip in the liner. I've read all the sections on process. I figured I would try the SLAM and see if I could get a lay of the land. The issue is that I'm not at all confident that the filter can handle the process. I've toyed with the idea of rigging up a ghetto pluming set up. i.e. disconnect the current setup and just run pvc over the edge of the pool, perhaps just one intake and one return to start just to get circulation. I'm guessing you can't really do much sans filter. I've got the system running right now and limping, but I sampled the water coming out of the filter and I can see though the jar. I picked up a bottom vac unit, but if I cover the skimmer, there's not really suction there. (returns stop) I guess the main issue is if I go "by the book" I should get the CYA in there, then drop the PH more if needed, than lots of chlorine. But if I'm losing water, I can't maintain the CYA with the rate that the stuff dissolves. The returns constantly blow air which can't help the PH, etc. It's vinyl, so I can't just drain it and start over (sand bottom to boot, or so I've been told by neighbors). Thoughts? The thing is really green, like tons of sludge on the bottom green. I got feed up with the stuff and picked up a Shop-Vac with a hose attachment that pumps and sucked a large amount of the gunk on the top off and pointed the hose back in the pool. (We have a cotton wood somewhere if the area that I have to find and set on fire at some point here.) Is there a Shock and Awe procedure? I was toying with the idea of digging down around the lines to check on them there, but there is at least 6' of cement around all the edges of the pool, so if they ran the lines shallow and above the frost line, I could be toast. At what point is this a wash? Is it worth going say, half way and running a PVC line to the bottom of the deep end for an intake and maybe trying to use the existing returns (and axe them if I still get air in the lines) I have not opened the filter and for all I know there is nothing in there. I was going to field strip the filter and drop new sand in, but that's pointless until I can feed it. Too many equations, too many unknowns.
Looking for Ideas
- Thread starter cgallaty
- Start date
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Re: Looking for Ideas...
Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here
It sounds like your pool is in the hard basket, but maybe not the too-hard basket. If you're able to get some circulation, it seems to me that there's a worthwhile starting point, but of course no one can predict what repairs may be needed or problems to uncover along the way. How much water does the pool lose in 24 hrs with the pump off?
You could start by reading this thread: Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
The first step is to get the gunk and sludge out, and for that you need a leaf rake. I'll link a video so you can see what a leaf rake is and how it works. You'll need to blindly try to cover the bottom repeatedly as though you were vacuuming a floor, trying to get as much as you can. You're on vinyl so push it gently and avoid the corners; it will still pick up lots of junk.
How To Scoop/Remove Debris From Bottom Of Swimming Pool - YouTube
Then if you can get the pump working, you could do some vacuuming to waste to remove a bit more finer stuff.
I would deep clean the sand filter and not change the sand. It's really hard to know what all might be cracked or broken from freezing, but it seems like time to work through it all one step at a time. There's every chance the filter has way too much gunk in it and flow might improve quite a bit after a deep clean, but who knows. Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
That's a reasonable first few steps until we know more about what you're up against.
It's fair to say this might not be easy, but who knows until you try, right?
Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here
It sounds like your pool is in the hard basket, but maybe not the too-hard basket. If you're able to get some circulation, it seems to me that there's a worthwhile starting point, but of course no one can predict what repairs may be needed or problems to uncover along the way. How much water does the pool lose in 24 hrs with the pump off?
You could start by reading this thread: Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
The first step is to get the gunk and sludge out, and for that you need a leaf rake. I'll link a video so you can see what a leaf rake is and how it works. You'll need to blindly try to cover the bottom repeatedly as though you were vacuuming a floor, trying to get as much as you can. You're on vinyl so push it gently and avoid the corners; it will still pick up lots of junk.
How To Scoop/Remove Debris From Bottom Of Swimming Pool - YouTube
Then if you can get the pump working, you could do some vacuuming to waste to remove a bit more finer stuff.
I would deep clean the sand filter and not change the sand. It's really hard to know what all might be cracked or broken from freezing, but it seems like time to work through it all one step at a time. There's every chance the filter has way too much gunk in it and flow might improve quite a bit after a deep clean, but who knows. Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
That's a reasonable first few steps until we know more about what you're up against.
It's fair to say this might not be easy, but who knows until you try, right?
Been playing with the leaf rake, as well as a brush I bought. The main goal was to see if the vent on the bottom is clogged or just not working, (or both). Just to give you a feel for what I'm dealing with I pulled this out of the shallower end.
(Note I could not see it in there, I hit it with the pole.)
Similarly, just yesterday while I was playing with brushing the bottom I snagged this and pulled it up:
That would be what seems to be the pad/cover for a patio love seat. So I'm not quite sure what else is down there. The issue with the leaf net is that you kind of have to be able to see what you are raking up. I've been blindly 'fishing' for things, but clearly I'm not going to be able to get all of it using the blind method.
On the sand filter. It's a Hayward S200. They don't seem to make those diffusers with any way to grab them to yank them out. I'm thinking I'm going to have to just pull the 24 bolts and at least see what is going on in there.
The other bit is that the water near the top is starting to smell somewhat like pool water. However the stuff that I'm pulling off the bottom smells like a sewage tank. If I do manage to get the levels to where it will hold chlorine, can't I just shock the snot out of it to get a bit more visibility? There is a place in the area that sells 10% bleach in 5 gallon containers (with a deposit) for rather cheap. A few of those with the water limping on circulate should at least cut some of the murk so I can see more of what I have to deal with, no? I can McGyver a shop vac to get some of the slime up if I can at least see where it is and how much is there.
(Note I could not see it in there, I hit it with the pole.)
Similarly, just yesterday while I was playing with brushing the bottom I snagged this and pulled it up:
That would be what seems to be the pad/cover for a patio love seat. So I'm not quite sure what else is down there. The issue with the leaf net is that you kind of have to be able to see what you are raking up. I've been blindly 'fishing' for things, but clearly I'm not going to be able to get all of it using the blind method.
On the sand filter. It's a Hayward S200. They don't seem to make those diffusers with any way to grab them to yank them out. I'm thinking I'm going to have to just pull the 24 bolts and at least see what is going on in there.
The other bit is that the water near the top is starting to smell somewhat like pool water. However the stuff that I'm pulling off the bottom smells like a sewage tank. If I do manage to get the levels to where it will hold chlorine, can't I just shock the snot out of it to get a bit more visibility? There is a place in the area that sells 10% bleach in 5 gallon containers (with a deposit) for rather cheap. A few of those with the water limping on circulate should at least cut some of the murk so I can see more of what I have to deal with, no? I can McGyver a shop vac to get some of the slime up if I can at least see where it is and how much is there.
Last edited:
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Wow, great progress finding the big stuff! Be sure to read that thread on deep cleaning a sand filter because it describes everything about the the filter and how it works.
The water will stay cloudy with dead algae 'carcasses' until the filter is able to clear them out, so getting the filter running will be important. But yep, getting some chlorine in there will help with preventing it from getting worse. Do you have, or have you ordered, a recommended test kit? If not, I wouldn't add more than 1/2 gallon per day for now. Let us know the size of the pool by including it in a signature.
When you get a chance, follow the instructions in 'read before posting' linked in my signature. There's some tips on adding a signature with your pool description. Just add whatever you can and it will really help you get the best possible advice.
The water will stay cloudy with dead algae 'carcasses' until the filter is able to clear them out, so getting the filter running will be important. But yep, getting some chlorine in there will help with preventing it from getting worse. Do you have, or have you ordered, a recommended test kit? If not, I wouldn't add more than 1/2 gallon per day for now. Let us know the size of the pool by including it in a signature.
When you get a chance, follow the instructions in 'read before posting' linked in my signature. There's some tips on adding a signature with your pool description. Just add whatever you can and it will really help you get the best possible advice.
I've been more fishing for ideas on approach. I'm read through all the write-ups. I just got my K-2006 and I've been adding things before over time based on the last water reading that I got from a test trip to the local pool store. (And sadly, they were as sharky as lore states, but pools are lean pickings in this area so you can hardly blame them.) I'm hopefully going to get to testing later this weekend, but the CYA levels should be enough to hold things steady. I have a bunch of extra PVC that I picked up, I figure if I swap out the pipe to the existing skimmers/bottom vent, I can just sink one line into the deep end and draw from there and use the returns that are there for now. Basically a triage setup. I can't reliably leave the pump running for long periods of time now as it starts sucking to much air and the returns die until I cycle the pump. The diffuser is on rather well, so I picked up new sand in anticipation of what I might find. Even if I can get it limping to filter the pool to start, the filter itself smells like it needs a gallon of bleach and I'm going to want to swap it after I get the initial purge done. I've updated the sig with what I know, but the swamp part is the least of the pools issues. Not sure that the pipes are not the source of the leak and so I need a control. With the skimmers our of the equation, if the level drops that leaves the bottom vent. Until I can visually inspect the liner for rips that's what I have. Not having to add water to get the skimmers working means I'm not throwing the balance off by constantly having to add water just to circulate. In theory, I should be in the right position to shock the thing.
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
OK, good luck as far as fingers crossed the liner isn't leaking, and whatever is leaking is not too difficult to fix.