Lights full of water

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jerryk1234

Bronze Supporter
Jan 22, 2018
165
Hayward, CA
Hello!

When we had our pool built, they installed three fancy multicolor LED lights. They died. What's going on? At first, I suspected a bad connection at the junction box. I popped it open - nope, everything in there is clean as a whistle. Today, in the pool, I took a careful look at the lights themselves. All three of them are full of water :(.

I have a call in with the pool builder. Warranty? Hope so...these suckers cost a grand apiece!

If not, I guess I'll try to fix them myself. I'm thinking of drilling a couple small holes in the back and hooking up an air compressor to one of them. Blow through it till it's dry. Then epoxy up the holes. Do it at the side of the pool, so I don't have to fish out the cables to the junction box.

These things have actual electronics in them, surely including a microcontroller. Which surely has a crystal oscillator. Which SURELY doesn't take kindly to being immersed in water.
 
It's very possible your pool is unsafe to even touch, let along stick your arm in to work on anything. I couldn't say if your air-compressor-epoxy idea would work. I can't imagine it would, but either way, I wouldn't ever put a toe in your pool ever.

Pursue the warranty with the builder first. Then with the manufacturer. If denied, call back again to get someone else on the phone and try again (you'd be surprised how often that works with tech support). Any work on your part might be considered as grounds to void your warranty. Let the builder deal with it.

In the meantime, be sure the breaker to the lights is off. If there is a GFCI outlet that supplies power to the lights, be sure that is tripped. Be careful NOT to inadvertently "un-trip" it.

And frankly, if it were my pool, I would unwire all the wires connected to those lights: physically disconnect them. But unless you are very sure how to do that, don't attempt it, you could make things worse. In the meantime, don't touch the water, if you can help it. That goes for kids and pets, too, of course.
 
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That was the paranoid super-cautious answer. In the meantime, you might tell us more about your lights. Brand and model, low or high voltage, how they are wired, and how any protection is configured (circuit breakers, GFCI outlets, etc). Others here will have more ideas, but they'll first need to know more about your system.
 
They're 12V lights. Actually 15V AC (rms), according to my good Fluke multimeter. Probably a good idea to disconnect them at the junction box. OK, I did that. Time to go swim!
They're Hayward "Colorlogic" lamps. I need to either dig up the paperwork, or go pop one out of the pool to see the exact model number.
This Amazon listing looks similar:

Note the reviews. I am not alone. Apparently, these lights are garbage!
 
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There probably is no warranty. They were installed almost 5 years ago. I have a call in with the pool builder. One of the Amazon reviews mentioned Hayward having an out-of-warranty replacement program due to design flaws. ( Ya THINK? All three of them full of water? ). But that post was in 2017. So that program might be long gone. If the pool builder can't do anything, I'll call Hayward & ask about that program.

If Hayward won't help, I'll proceed with plan B. Drill a couple holes in the back, couple one of them to an air compressor, and run air through it till it's dry. Then maybe epoxy up one of the holes, leave the compressor connnected - compress it up just a bit - a few PSI - and
dunk it in the water & look for bubbles.

If that doesn't work, I'll be looking for some other brand of light. No WAY am I giving Hayward 3 grand for three lights that will only last a few years!
 
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I'm with Dirk - even with 12v lights, I wouldn't attempt any sort of aftermarket/homebrew repair. Not worth the liability if, God forbid, anything should happen while someone is swimming in the pool.

As an aside - the leakage/failure rates on many recent underwater lights (beyond just Hayward) is ridiculously high and should be considered an embarrassment to the pool industry - especially considering what these things cost. This seems like one of the few areas of pool equipment where "they don't make 'em like they used to" really applies. I'm partway through replacing one of the original lights in my pool and I confirmed yesterday that the 27-year-old fixture still doesn't leak! (PacFab Hatteras 500w fixture, replacing because the potting compound has melted and the fixture overheats and blows bulbs). I'm going back in with an old-school Pentair Amerlite, which I hope lasts another 20-30 years.
 
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I was thinking primarily of safety for you and your family, but the liability aspect is certainly one to consider before you try to "fix" something that is prone to failure. Besides, I don't know what drying out the insides is going to do for whatever caused the leaking in the first place, or how it would prevent it from leaking again.

Five years is ridiculous for a $1000 light, but not all that unheard of. And @gkw4815 is absolutely right when he describes the current state of pool light technology as an embarrassment.

I really do think you should write these off. All your labor efforts would likely be just more loss, good "money" towards bad, type of dealio.

Glad to hear they are low voltage. That's a step in the right direction at least. I wish my light was. Replace them with something economical and put the money into garden lighting. That produces a much better asthetic affect, much better bang for your buck. I did a little write up about my great experience with VOLT lighting and the thread kinda took off. Might give you some ideas for money better spent.

VOLT Garden Lighting

I've mentioned several times over the years my purchase of Volt Lighting for my garden lights. Their build quality is amazing. Beautiful. Solid brass. All sealed up with o-rings. I purchased them almost eight years ago (7 years, 10 months and 12 days ago). I just had my first and only issue...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
jerryk1234 said:
They're 12V lights. Actually 15V AC (rms), according to my good Fluke multimeter. Probably a good idea to disconnect them at the junction box. OK, I did that. Time to go swim!
They're Hayward "Colorlogic" lamps. I need to either dig up the paperwork, or go pop one out of the pool to see the exact model number.
This Amazon listing looks similar:

Note the reviews. I am not alone. Apparently, these lights are garbage!
Click to expand...
Yes, the lights are garbage. If they are installed in the "shallow" Hayward niche you may have a hard time finding something that will fit. I have heard of, but never seen, these that are supposed to fit a "shallow" niche.

Poolexa SS10100​

 
The niches are
1poolman1 said:
Yes, the lights are garbage. If they are installed in the "shallow" Hayward niche you may have a hard time finding something that will fit.
Click to expand...
I think they're deep niches. There's about 4 feet of cable coiled in there behind each light. Are there any good lights available for the deep Hayward niches? I don't know how standardized this stuff is...
 
I feel your pain. When we bought our 14-year-old pool 2.5 years ago, I noted the lights were 120v - Pentaire Amerlite x 2 and AquaLite x 1. I was keen to replace them with LED for the reasons you mention: safety and lower power use. After lots of study, I gave up. The expense and consistent problem reports were just too discouraging. The old owners had the house for 12 years and say they never replaced lights. Niches and bonding were good. The Amerlites are fine. The Aqualite leaked a few drops and blew the bulb our first summer. No issues replacing it for $245. Caveat: we only light the pool when we're actually using it after dark. Maybe 20 nights a year.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 

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generessler said:
we only light the pool when we're actually using it after dark.
Click to expand...
I find myself doing the same thing, for fear of "wearing out" an $800+ light bulb! It's ridiculous. On a side note, which is another gripe of mine: if you have a red, green and blue LED array, you can make about a billion colors, give or take. Pentair lights can make five. They are capable of a handful of "light shows," but only half of them are attractive. Very frustrating. Hopefully you all are getting better bang for you bucks, but that's my experience.

And don't get me stated on the control method. You, or an automated controller, must turn on and off the light some number of times to switch colors or effects. Yah, really, that's a thing! Click-clank-click-clank for one color, then click-clank-click-clank-click-clank-click-clank for another. Seriously.

So they don't look or work all that great, but at least they don't last very long either!! There's so much room here for some competition that could take over the market. But it just hasn't happened (that I know of). They all make bad, expensive lights.

== END OF RANT ==
 
OK, I guess the niches are shallow :(. They're P/N LFGUY1000. On the Amazon Poolexa SS10100
page, somebody asked about this very niche, and the answer was that it would fit with a minor modification. I sent an email to the company asking about details of that "minor modification", no answer yet.

The poolexa however will be hard to use electrically. Let me explain...

The current system has a low voltage transformer at the equipment pad. The equipment pad is about 8 feet from the pool deck, and is maybe 5 feet below the water level. The 12VAC is piped through underground conduit to a junction box near the pool, and about a foot above the water level. From this junction box, three individual underground conduits go to the lights. There are three 10-inch lights.

The Poolexa system features a light with a multi-wire cable going to a "controller", which has the low-voltage transformer built in. One controller can only drive ONE 10-inch Poolexa light. OK, what about using three Poolexa controllers, one for each light? They would have to be at the equipment pad. I don't think that one conduit from
the equipment pad to the junction box is big enough for three cables.
 
What controls the controllers? A pool automation controller? Or wifi, or rf? If the latter, @gkw4815 has the right idea. There are lots of water-tight enclosures that could house the light controllers and be mounted on a post of some sort, near the light junction box. Then later "disguised" by landscaping. That's how I run all the lights in my yard, from a box out behind my pool fence, 50' from my pad. Those controllers are RF.

I have a pic of a similar one in that Volt thread I gave you previously.
 
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