Leak in Spa return piping

[crusemm]

I've been fighting a leak somewhere in my plumbing for most of the summer. I was adding hundreds of gallons a day in make-up water to the pool. I went as far as hiring a leak detection company out of DFW to help me locate the leak. They narrowed it down to the spa drain to pump suction leg, and I had them install plugs to block that section off. However, I was still having problems as evidenced by continuously decreasing salt levels. Friday a took a chance and shut off the return from the filter back to the spa to see how it would respond. I saw an almost immediate drop in level (2-3 inches over an hour), much faster than evaporation could account for, even at 100F. Water level continued to drop over the next day or so until it got to the return piping, at which point it has pretty much stopped.

So, here's where I"m at:
1) I have removed my spa heater since I didn't use it, and repurposed it's electrical supply to my SWCG.
2) I have removed power from my spa blower, and used that connection to power a Mini-split A/C unit that was much needed to cool an office space.
3) I have plugged the spa drain connection to the pump suction (though these plugs could be removed)
4) I have a leak in the return line back to the spa.

I have no interest in spending the time or money to dig up the pipes (and possibly concrete) to fix, as we never really used the spa for it's intended purpose.

My question is what's my best next course of action? Do I somehow completely fill in the spa, maybe turn it into a funky tanning ledge? Use it as a diving platform? Or is there some other way to salvage this? Like I said, I don't really care if I recover "use of the spa" so maybe there is some solution other than filling it in. Right now it is sitting with half the plaster exposed, drying out in the sun.

 

[Texas Splash]

Might help to see some pics of your pool & spa.

 

[crusemm]

These pictures are a bit old. In the snow picture you can see the pool layout. The large Oak tree is gone, and there is currently a patio there.

 

[Texas Splash]

If you move-forward with removing (filling-in) the spa, it looks like a fairly straight-forward project. Closing-off the plumbing, scoring along the blue tile, knocking out the spillover wall, then finishing the coping ledge with the existing stones to match.

 

[crusemm]

If you move-forward with removing (filling-in) the spa, it looks like a fairly straight-forward project. Closing-off the plumbing, scoring along the blue tile, knocking out the spillover wall, then finishing the coping ledge with the existing stones to match.

I like that Idea. Is there any way to patch/seal/sleeve those pipes without having to dig them up/tear out the concrete? Or do I have to know for sure what the actual leak location is? Like which of the four (five?) returns it's on, or if it's common?

 

[Texas Splash]

Is there any way to patch/seal/sleeve those pipes without having to dig them up/tear out the concrete? Or do I have to know for sure what the actual leak location is? Like which of the four (five?) returns it's on, or if it's common?

Your suction lines don't seem to be marked in the photo, but only one of those lines should pull water from the spa. The other 3 lines are probably skimmer(s), drain, and/or cleaner. Then only one line should go back to the spa return jets. If those 3-way valves are working properly (seal & close off), and no one opens them by accident, you could theoretically keep the spa suction and return valves closed and just not use the spa (fill it in). You wouldn't have to go out of your way to dig-up all the spa lines, but I would probably cap them off at the spa demo area somewhere under ground. Long-term you might want to reconfigure plumbing and valves above ground at the pad to omit the spa. That's probably just as easy as digging down next to the concrete just to find the proper spa lines to cap them off.

 

[crusemm]

What if I moved some piping around. Connected my spa return to to my spa suction piping, and blocked off my spa return piping at the wall? This way I could keep my spa full of water, but not lose any water to the leaky pipes

 

[crusemm]

Your suction lines don't seem to be marked in the photo, but only one of those lines should pull water from the spa. The other 3 lines are probably skimmer(s), drain, and/or cleaner. Then only one line should go back to the spa return jets. If those 3-way valves are working properly (seal & close off), and no one opens them by accident, you could theoretically keep the spa suction and return valves closed and just not use the spa (fill it in). You wouldn't have to go out of your way to dig-up all the spa lines, but I would probably cap them off at the spa demo area somewhere under ground. Long-term you might want to reconfigure plumbing and valves above ground at the pad to omit the spa. That's probably just as easy as digging down next to the concrete just to find the proper spa lines to cap them off.

The question you responded to, I was wondering if there was any practical way to repair the leak without having to tear out the piping. The picture with the pump the pipes are from left t right:
Spa return - 3 way valve - pool main drain - far skimmer - near skimmer
In the picture with the SWCG, the spa return check valve is just barely visible in the bottom left corner.

 

[Texas Splash]

On the suction side, the pipes are so close to the ground I don't see a way to simply cut & cap the spa suction line without reconfiguring your entire manifold of suction lines. They all appear to be glued to their own valve. On the return side, a lot going on there as well with fittings quite tight to each other. Another though - maybe remove the top of each 3-way valve that is up against the spa suction & return line, then try to insert a plug into that branch of spa line itself? We can ask @Poolbreh for his opinion of options.

 

[crusemm]

I'm pretty sure there is enough room to work, I will take some better pictures when I get home. I might try this, just to see If I can at least buy some more time before a permanent decision.

 

[Poolbreh]

I’m confused the leak detector says it’s in the spa drain and you isolated it to the spa returns jets. How do you know they both aren’t leaking? I would figure that out before making and drastic changes. Are you sure the spa isn’t just draining back into the pool?

 

[crusemm]

I’m confused the leak detector says it’s in the spa drain and you isolated it to the spa returns jets. How do you know they both aren’t leaking? I would figure that out before making and drastic changes. Are you sure the spa isn’t just draining back into the pool?

Sequence of events:
1. Leak detector tested the pool, said leak was in the spa drain line
2. Shut off line from spa drain to pump suction (normally closed anyway)
3.Had leak detector plug spa drain line
4. Still losing water
5. re-plugged drain line with rubber plugs AND threaded plugs
6. Still losing water
7. Shut off return line to spa,
8. Lost several inches of water in spa in a couple of hours. drained to level of return lines overnight
9. Pool level has gone down maybe 2 inches in 36 hours, appropriate for 100F days I would believe. Also, salt level is going up as water level goes down.

There may be a leak in the drain line also, but the water level in the spa stopped going down when the return lines got exposed, and is now going down about the same rate as the pool.

 

[crusemm]

Are you sure the spa isn’t just draining back into the pool?

I don,t see how it could be. That would be draining backwards through the spa return lines through the check valve, a closed valve, and against pump discharge pressure.

 

[Poolbreh]

If both are leaking you can add a spigot into equipment and run a garden hose back to the spa to circulate sanitized water. That should buy you time to decide. If only returns are leaking, I see no problem with your plan. I can’t see your full equipment layout so a check valve may be needed.

 

[crusemm]

Before I try to reconfigure piping, I might try Fix-A-Leak, need to do some more research.

 

[crusemm]

More photos

 

[Poolbreh]

I think my concern is the return lines are closely correlated with the pool level. It appears the 3way and check valve were at one point right after a tab feeder. The best way would be to plug every return jet in the spa, but if you leave the pump off over night you can also close the pool return valve to see if it still drops. Everything points to a leaking return but I would want to be absolutely sure before changing anything

 

[crusemm]

Okay, so the next issue in my quest to salvage my spa plaster. I tried plugging the return lines in my sp, and for the regular eyeballs, I can get winterizing plugs. But the massaging jets are another matter. They appear to be Hydroair Micro'ssage jets. I can pull the entire jet assembly out oif the wall (it threads out) but the piece left in the wall has some sort of non-standard threads. Does anyone have any idea what size plugs I would need to order to plug those connections?

 

[crusemm]

 

[crusemm]

Anybody have any info on plugging these fittings?