Jets causing coughing, hard water fill and more

[mxfan]

Hi all,
I have been a member of this forum for quite a few years and the information has always helped me keep my swg pool and hot tub in great shape at our old house. My issue is that we moved about a year ago to a different home that had an existing hot tub that was neglected. When we first moved in between moving, unboxing etc. the spa was full of water but we didn't have time to get to it. Hot tub is a Sundance Cameo 2008.
I finally was able to drain the spa, bought new filters and thoroughly cleaned the surface. I filled the hot tub with fresh water (we are on a well) and also switched over to Bromine. At our old house I used bleach, but I had read that Bromine held up a little better so I put in a floater and used the Bromine tabs that were left at the house when the old owner moved out. At that time everything was good and the tub was staying clean and levels were good. At that time I was just using test strips but now have the Taylor 2006 test kit.
I changed out the water at 3 months and that's when the issues started. After about 2 months my Wife and I were in the hot tub without the jets going and everything seemed fine. The minute I turned on the jets the steam made both of us cough and choke almost instantly. Test strips showed within range, but If I turned on the jets I would get a whiff of the mist from even 20' away from the spa and cough.
I never shocked the spa, another mistake...
I bought some Ahhsome and the Taylor test kit to get more accurate test numbers.
I ended up draining the tub now and using a shop vac to suck the water out of all of the jets. It had rust coming from the chrome grab bars and a rust line at water level around the entire tub.
I was able to remove all of the rust stains now, and it is sitting there empty. My plan is to buy new filters and fill it, get the levels correct and then use the Ahhsome to clean out the lines (which I should have done immediately after moving in but didn't).
My other slight issue is we are no longer on city water and our well water is hard!
Here are the numbers right out of our tap (we don't have a water softener).

PH 7.0
CH 175
TA 250
FC 0
I am considering going back to using Bleach for sanitizing but could use any advice for startup and getting dealing with the high TA and CH?
Any help or advice would be very much appreciated!

Thank you.

 

[Mdragger88]

The ch is fine- anything below 200 is totally
I suspect the tub experienced an acidic condition or too high of a sanitizer level for too long which contributed to the rust issue & Hard to say what was causing the coughing without knowing the previous levels. I would attempt to find replacement rails - they will only continue to rust now.

Do the Ahhsome purge, every thing doesn’t need to be perfect when purging just be sure to have some adequate sanitizer in the water since you’ll be sticking your hands in there. Warm water is best but not required.
You can do subsequent purges with the same water - just add a 1/2 dose and go again after the last round dies down. Do however many it takes for there to be no more detritus released.
Be sure to wipe gunk as you go so nothing dries on the shell.
Remove all pillows/head rests & removable jet packs and throw them in the water for a bit.
Some choose to let it sit overnight & resume purging the following day if things are really funky. Kinda like soaking your dishes.


After the purge is done, drain, rinse & wipe everything down.
Upon refill follow this guide -

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

You can always go back to bromine from chlorine but to switch from bromine to chlorine requires a complete water exchange.
*Adequate Sanitizer is King
FC/CYA Levels
*Ph in the 7’s is Queen
Worry about Every thing else after.
Your ta is high so you’ll have a little work cut out for you. Work on it when you have time. Luckily with a spa the cycles are much faster than in a large pool due to the small volume & intense aeration. Like ph rises again in 30 minutes instead of days.
A high ta only means that ph will rise faster - it’s not hurting anything. It will come down as you manage ph.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.google.com

 

[mxfan]

The ch is fine- anything below 200 is totally
I suspect the tub experienced an acidic condition or too high of a sanitizer level for too long which contributed to the rust issue & Hard to say what was causing the coughing without knowing the previous levels. I would attempt to find replacement rails - they will only continue to rust now.

Do the Ahhsome purge, every thing doesn’t need to be perfect when purging just be sure to have some adequate sanitizer in the water since you’ll be sticking your hands in there. Warm water is best but not required.
You can do subsequent purges with the same water - just add a 1/2 dose and go again after the last round dies down. Do however many it takes for there to be no more detritus released.
Be sure to wipe gunk as you go so nothing dries on the shell.
Remove all pillows/head rests & removable jet packs and throw them in the water for a bit.
Some choose to let it sit overnight & resume purging the following day if things are really funky. Kinda like soaking your dishes.


After the purge is done, drain, rinse & wipe everything down.
Upon refill follow this guide -

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

You can always go back to bromine from chlorine but to switch from bromine to chlorine requires a complete water exchange.
*Adequate Sanitizer is King
FC/CYA Levels
*Ph in the 7’s is Queen
Worry about Every thing else after.
Your ta is high so you’ll have a little work cut out for you. Work on it when you have time. Luckily with a spa the cycles are much faster than in a large pool due to the small volume & intense aeration. Like ph rises again in 30 minutes instead of days.
A high ta only means that ph will rise faster - it’s not hurting anything. It will come down as you manage ph.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.google.com

Thank you very much for the help and info, much appreciated!

 

[RDspaguy]

Bromine chemistry is very different than chlorine chemistry, and shocking is a must, as it is what oxidizes the bromide back into bromine. Your bromine tabs are mostly chlorine, you know.
I have always known a bromine tub the instant I open the cover. I also cough from it.
While Sundance recommends bromine, I do not. Especially in a Sundance with a working ozone system. I do recommend a working ozone system if using a 24/7 circulation pump.

 

[mxfan]

Bromine chemistry is very different than chlorine chemistry, and shocking is a must, as it is what oxidizes the bromide back into bromine. Your bromine tabs are mostly chlorine, you know.
I have always known a bromine tub the instant I open the cover. I also cough from it.
While Sundance recommends bromine, I do not. Especially in a Sundance with a working ozone system. I do recommend a working ozone system if using a 24/7 circulation pump.

Thank you for the info! This is the first time I have tried bromine, but I think based on your advice, I will stick to chlorine sanitizing instead. I had good luck with that in the past also. Thanks again!

 

[mxfan]

The ch is fine- anything below 200 is totally
I suspect the tub experienced an acidic condition or too high of a sanitizer level for too long which contributed to the rust issue & Hard to say what was causing the coughing without knowing the previous levels. I would attempt to find replacement rails - they will only continue to rust now.

Do the Ahhsome purge, every thing doesn’t need to be perfect when purging just be sure to have some adequate sanitizer in the water since you’ll be sticking your hands in there. Warm water is best but not required.
You can do subsequent purges with the same water - just add a 1/2 dose and go again after the last round dies down. Do however many it takes for there to be no more detritus released.
Be sure to wipe gunk as you go so nothing dries on the shell.
Remove all pillows/head rests & removable jet packs and throw them in the water for a bit.
Some choose to let it sit overnight & resume purging the following day if things are really funky. Kinda like soaking your dishes.


After the purge is done, drain, rinse & wipe everything down.
Upon refill follow this guide -

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

You can always go back to bromine from chlorine but to switch from bromine to chlorine requires a complete water exchange.
*Adequate Sanitizer is King
FC/CYA Levels
*Ph in the 7’s is Queen
Worry about Every thing else after.
Your ta is high so you’ll have a little work cut out for you. Work on it when you have time. Luckily with a spa the cycles are much faster than in a large pool due to the small volume & intense aeration. Like ph rises again in 30 minutes instead of days.
A high ta only means that ph will rise faster - it’s not hurting anything. It will come down as you manage ph.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.google.com

Thank you again for your recommendations. I have completed the ahhaome procedure, rinsed, shop vac’d out all the jets and refilled my hot tub.
We are on well water so I have been working on getting the TA down to recommended levels which I just accomplished this morning.
Current levels:
FC 5
PH 7.6
TA 50
CH 180
Water temp 98

My final step was going to be adding Borates to help with the PH fluctuations.
I have both Gentle Spa and 20 mule borax, but I am confused on how much to add.
The guide shows ppm~50 is recommended.
When I go the PoolMath and select the 20 mule borax it shows to add 26oz. to reach 49.
If I add the 26 ounces of Borax to get the 50ppm, it also shows I will also be raising my pH by 6.3 and the TA by 113?
Am I reading this correctly?
It just seems like it’s adding a ton of pH and TA and getting that number down will take a while. I just wanted to make sure I’m doing it the correct way and not missing something?
Thank you!

 

[Mdragger88]

We recommend using boric acid to add borates since its more ph & ta neutral than borax or the gentle spa.

The gentle spa used to be
tetraborate pentahydrate (I assume it still is)
which is listed in poolmath & will increase ph & ta by quite a bit as well.
These increases should be offset by acid if you choose to use either one .

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

Boric acid (H3BO3) 10043-35-3 70 to 80%.

Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate 12179-04-3 20 to 30%

https://proteampoolcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/proteam_gentle_spa_-_2018-5-11_1.pdf

 

[mxfan]

We recommend using boric acid to add borates since its more ph & ta neutral than borax or the gentle spa.

The gentle spa used to be
tetraborate pentahydrate (I assume it still is)
which is listed in poolmath & will increase ph & ta by quite a bit as well.
These increases should be offset by acid if you choose to use either one .

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you for the info! Much appreciated

 

[mxfan]

Boric acid (H3BO3) 10043-35-3 70 to 80%.

Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate 12179-04-3 20 to 30%

https://proteampoolcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/proteam_gentle_spa_-_2018-5-11_1.pdf

Thank you too! I appreciate your time and answer!

 

[Mdragger88]

With the updated info on the gentlespa being mostly boric acid I would suggest going with that per the instructions on the package.